Asking about salary during recruitment process

[spongebobsleftsock]

Hi everyone,

Is it normal to apply for a job and go through the whole process to point of offer without knowing the salary the potential employer is offering?

I'm currently applying for a senior position within a large financial services organisation, had the first interview which went really well and now onto round two which includes a particularly gruelling presentation in front of the whole leadership team and an enormous amount of prep work. This is a direct hire rather than via a recruitment agency, and I was approached by the hiring manager as we've known each other for years.

However, they won't tell me what the salary is, even a ballpark figure. I've asked twice, and they've said this is something to be discussed if I'm successful on the next (final) stage. They do definitely have a figure in mind.

I'm just finding this a bit strange as in previous positions I've always had an idea of salary prior to interview, and I'm slightly worried that I am going to be doing hours of work to prep for this interview and might end up not taking the job because the salary doesn't meet my needs.

Does anyone have experience of this? Is it weird or am I just lucky to have not come across this before?

[spongebobsleftsock]

[quote PegasusReturns]@spongebobsleftsock how senior are you talking?

That does make a difference.

Which level will you be reporting to? CEO / other c-suite / direct report of c-suite. MNC or U.K. only?[/quote]
It would be other c-suite. Small branch of larger organisation, but still it's own entity. If that makes any sense.

[spongebobsleftsock]

I'm definitely too old to shimmy. My shimmy-ing days are over

I do like to be honest, it's something that's worked well for me throughout my career and I've managed to use to my advantage so far. I do hate the politics and accompanying dance sometimes!

[1984isnow]

On Glassdoor and Indeed you can view company reviews from employees, which can include salaries. Even though it's a new role, you might be able to see roles of a similar level. Not necessarily up to date or exact, but it can give you some idea on what to expect.

Also, agree with Pegasus I was confused reading overthis posts, what a whirlwind😅. OP don't act semi sad whilst simultaneously smiling and muttering, whatever you do (unless the new role is to play the Joker)

[Overthisnonsensedotcom]

ReceptacleForTheRespectable
Trouble with that kind of admirable straight up approach is, I see women regularly undervaluing themselves by 20-50K base. Men go in optimistically high and thinking they could do it and hope to get to negotiate how they could do the role. Women go In low and Know they could do it and hope to be offered the role.

[ReceptacleForTheRespectable]

That's why I said "don't undersell yourself"
But if you think the company won't attempt a lowball opening offer to a woman who is shimmying, I think you are wrong.

OP - you may end up having to negotiate downwards from your opening gambit, so it should be optimistic. But you do need to be clear about what your expectations are. The employer has NO IDEA what you are currently paid. Don't look mysterious or sad about it, but let them make their own assumptions.

"What is your current base salary?"
"I would be looking for a package of at least [minimum you'd accept plus e.g. 25%] to move out of my current position into the role you are recruiting to. Is that within the range which you are able to pay?"

[PapsofJura]

You will have to negotiate so know exactly what you are worth and then add on some more. If they go to offer, they want you and will either negotiate down or accept.

Don’t undersell as if they try to negotiate below what you think your worth, tell them that. When I have designed packages for roles, if there isn’t too much of a difference on what we want to pay and what the candidate wants we usually go with it rather than risk losing the candidate.

[Overthisnonsensedotcom]

When I said look semi sad, that was in context of needling their opening numbers out. As in, I love this role and I love the people I’ve met thus far, but this opening offer is just not something I can consider. If only it were more.

Please do not mention 25% or any % more than you are currently on. I regularly see women on many many K less than their male peers on the basis they are all highly skilled SMEs and If they were unhappy they’d leave. Thing is, the men kick off Regularly about their worth and the women, just as qualified and competent, trust in the firm to pay them their worth. In a world of finite budget, who do you think gets the uplift? After a few years of this well intentioned belief that everyone is treated fairly and equally , 25% uplift on current package would be way less than market rate.

[ReceptacleForTheRespectable]

You will have to negotiate so know exactly what you are worth and then add on some more. If they go to offer, they want you and will either negotiate down or accept.

This.

The side which makes the initial offer sets the boundaries of negotiation. If you go around looking wistful and wait for the company to make an offer, it WILL be as low as they think they can get away with. How many % will you be able to negotiate it up by?

If you tell them straight up what you expect, and don't undersell yourself, you will almost certainly have started the negotiation at a higher number than the company would have. If they offer you the role, the final package will likely be within a few % of what you asked for.

[ReceptacleForTheRespectable]

When I said look semi sad, that was in context of needling their opening numbers out.

Just no! Tell them that you are not willing to waste your time and want to know whether they'll meet your expectations prior to interview. They're recruiting to a senior position, weird emotional manipulation has no place here.

[ReceptacleForTheRespectable]

And no-one has told the OP to ask for a salary that is based on an uplift on her current one. Work out what the role is worth, then open negotiations based on what you expect plus X%. But don't tell them that %. This is basic stuff.

[Overthisnonsensedotcom]

ReceptacleForTheRespectable

Depends on the industry. Assumption is, anyone senior in my industry is on 6 figures base plus discretionary. I can only advise a point of view. Sounds like op has a different industry so I’ll step out. Thanks all.

[ReceptacleForTheRespectable]

So senior people in your industry look wistfully out of the window saying "hmmm.... I wish it were more" when a potential employer makes an offer?

I call bullshit. Senior people usually have enough about them to state their worth and negotiate. Finding out about salaries is not that hard - Glassdor, remuneration reports for senior people etc. Find the information that's out there (if it's not there for this company - look at their nearest competitor) and use it.

[ReceptacleForTheRespectable]

Assumption is, anyone senior in my industry is on 6 figures base plus discretionary.

This is the norm across pretty much the whole private sector, your industry isn't special.

[PegasusReturns]

Assumption is, anyone senior in my industry is on 6 figures base plus discretionary

That’s not unusual in any industry surely

I’ll also say in my industry, which is highly specialised, we don’t low ball or try to get away with paying people the minimum we can get away with.

We respect candidates, want them to feel valued and excited about the prospect of working for us and within reason will offer what it takes to secure the right person.

That may be what has driven my approach of disclosing current salary (I also know that I’m paid exceptionally well so it sets tone early on).

I do think there is a risk if, as in the OPs case, this is your first big step up that by stating what you want you inadvertently undersell yourself.

My top tip is always to ask for sign on. Super easy to justify (losing options/bonus/LTI etc) and easy for companies to push through as a one off.

[ReceptacleForTheRespectable]

I think that all sounds reasonable if your industry is like that. I know my employer does aim to pay the least they can at all levels below partner. I assume you would generally be active in negotiating on salary rather than being 'wistful' about it though?

[ReceptacleForTheRespectable]

Good tip re: sign on though. Definitely something that is easy to justify.

[spongebobsleftsock]

Thank you everyone for your replies - loads of really good tips here.

Never asked for a sign on bonus before, what's the best way to approach it with the employer should I be successful?

[ReceptacleForTheRespectable]

It would be during salary negotiation that this gets raised. Tell them you'll be losing a bonus projected at £X this year, as a result of leaving, and would like this compensated on joining.

(If there are other things on top of the bonus, obviously add those in)

[PegasusReturns]

@ReceptacleForTheRespectable I’d definitely advise in engaging in active negotiation, wistful gazing not recommended.

Also no looking “semi sad”, especially not whilst smiling lots. No shimmying or hinting.

Just ask for what you want and be prepared to walk away.

OP if you’re suffering from imposter syndrome read “nice girls don’t get the corner office” it was given to me by a female exec in my first “step yo role” because she thought I didn’t have sufficient exec presence.

I’ve not read the book for years (must reread as I keep recommending it) but it really resonated and ten years later with another step up role along the way I have the corner office (I’m c-suite with an external non-exec directorship).

Good luck!

[spongebobsleftsock]

Thanks @ReceptacleForTheRespectable. Just need to ace this interview now!

[spongebobsleftsock]

[quote PegasusReturns]@ReceptacleForTheRespectable I’d definitely advise in engaging in active negotiation, wistful gazing not recommended.

Also no looking “semi sad”, especially not whilst smiling lots. No shimmying or hinting.

Just ask for what you want and be prepared to walk away.

OP if you’re suffering from imposter syndrome read “nice girls don’t get the corner office” it was given to me by a female exec in my first “step yo role” because she thought I didn’t have sufficient exec presence.

I’ve not read the book for years (must reread as I keep recommending it) but it really resonated and ten years later with another step up role along the way I have the corner office (I’m c-suite with an external non-exec directorship).

Good luck![/quote]
Thanks @PegasusReturns - I shall add it to my kindle now.

Definitely prepared to walk away if I don't get the right package, with everything else going on at the moment now is not the time to settle for something mediocre.

[PegasusReturns]

Re sign on you can tie it back to bonus; LTI; or any non vested options you might have in current company. I.e I stand to lose X so would like to be compensated in sum of Y.

Or if role involves relocation you can tie it back to those costs.

Or you can use it as a way of bridging a gap in salary expectations, so “as indicated I was hoping to achieve a salary of X, I understand this is not possible but would request a one off payment of Y on joining to bridge the gap in my expectations”.

All three approaches are fairly standard.

[PegasusReturns]

Also one last thing:

Find out when their bonus pays out and whether you’ll be eligible - there is usually a cut off date.

If you’re going to miss that cut off date or it will be pro rated you can ask that you get the bonus anyway.

You want to avoid a position where you miss out on 2020 bonus at current company and then 2021 bonus at new company because you fall between the criteria.

[Username7521]

OP, please don't doubt yourself. I am happy to DM my industry salary expectations if that'll help!
Please don't undervalue yourself. I see it happen time and time again with women (And I've been known to do it myself).

[TurkeyTrot]

Definitely don't assume there is "a salary" for the position. It will be "a package", all parts of which are negotiable, but you may need to be ready to negotiate it all in one go.
Can you do some kind of benchmarking?