Cousin in tears - thinks may lose job over FB post any tips

[shushymcshush]

Hi grateful for any advice.

My cousin has been employed at workplace for nearly 14 years. Never been in trouble before. She's in tears as the other day, she put on FB that basically Drs & Teachers were getting a payrise, but what about all the other staff in hospitals and schools?

What she meant was that everyone in those organisations has worked so hard, you know all the support staff. A bit of equality would be nice (not taking anything away from the Drs, Nurses, Teachers)

I know it was a stupid post and she's shown me, clearly what she was getting at didn't quite come across that way. For some reason her post was set to public. Someone has snooped on her, seen it and informed management.

She's petrified she's goign to get the sack at the disciplinary. She didn't slag off her employer at all, just made a general statement (her employer is in the health arena).

In your experience wise MNtters, has she got a chance of escaping with a warning or is she likely to be fired? I've asked her to get me copies of social media policy etc.

@KatherineJaneway

Gross misconduct for a level headed opinion is overkill. Did you actually see what she wrote?

I did see the post and whilst I haven't quoted it verbatim, for obvious reasons, my OP was what she put. She didn't name the organisation, didn't swear or say anything unpleasant. She just said XXXX are getting payrise what about all the other staff - nothing for them?

There's two elements, firstly the "inappropriate post" which I think most of us agree it wasn't a smart thing to say, but not inappropriate. The second is being on FB in works time - that bit is clear.

@JudgeJudee

She did speak to an employment solicitor who felt she had a good case, but that was before she walked. She's been told the disciplinary will be halted and would get a good reference - but I don't trust them, they are not experienced at all. Honestly, people have stayed there for a lot worse -not mentioning the couple found having sexual activity in a room during working hours when a load of apprentice healthcare staff walked in for a training session

@jessycake yep, clearly someone with an axe to grind and nothing better to do. I agree I have seen far, far worse comments posted by others (not her). Let it be lesson to all of us.

If this isn't enough to put people off using Facebook I don't know what is. If she's in a union she should get in touch with them right away. If all shes written is what you've said I can't see she's done anything wrong at all. Except say she thinks her sector deserves more pay.

I do hope she participated in the process long enough to find out that it might actually be dismissal for gross misconduct ... my organisation's letters to "invite you to a formal hearing for disciplinary" warn of gross misconduct even if what you have done is only sufficient for an informal caution. They are very badly worded and contain the worst case scenario which - on most occasions - isn't the end result.

She did speak to an employment solicitor who felt she had a good case, but that was before she walked

What possessed her to walk?

The second is being on FB in works time - that bit is clear

That is why its gross misconduct.

Using company time to whine about a load of nonsense that she knew would make no difference on the worlds worst "social" media site.

Some people never learn. Your cousin has paid a heavy price for being stupid/naive/reckless to write whatever she did - in WORKS time.

I mean, how much more fucking stupid could a person be? 🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️

Sounds harsh I know, but that is why she was going to get done for gross misconduct.

Gross misconduct would be something of an overreaction if it was just about the post itself. A reminder of the policy would have been sufficient. I work in a school and the Head has "had a word" with a few people who've posted about specific things relating to situations in our school, but general posts are usually fine. I would suggest it's the during work time that is the problem, but even so it seems a bit strict for a first offence. Hard to tell without seeing the policy itself.

As an aside, the teacher's pay increase was done as part of the standard ongoing process and was announced in January so is nothing to do with Covid. And as it is being funded by schools themselves and not additional government funding, a lot of us probably won't see it!

[quote BrokenBrit]@Moondust001 I’m thinking along the lines of constructive dismissal. Probably pointless but it seems ridiculous to have her life damaged like this over something so innocuous.
The job market is crazy right now. My sister deals with job applications and yesterday took a job down after 260 applications in 24 hours! They usually get about 10 in a week!
I hope your cousin gets something sorted OP.[/quote]
She hasn't had her life damaged though. She has left the company and now needs to find a new job, plus learn from the experience. Sounds like she is relatively early in her career, plenty of time to catch up.

Her employer was playing a game of chicken. They made the threat, and she jumped before she was potentially pushed. Companies do take reputation seriously. She had no option but to blink first, because she didn't want a black mark on her employment record. Damage limitation.

Lesson learned.

I would suggest it's the during work time that is the problem, but even so it seems a bit strict for a first offence. Hard to tell without seeing the policy itself.

Agree. At my place of work they can see all the websites you've been on and when, so it could be she was checking Facebook or social media too often.

[quote BrokenBrit]@Moondust001 I’m thinking along the lines of constructive dismissal. Probably pointless but it seems ridiculous to have her life damaged like this over something so innocuous.
The job market is crazy right now. My sister deals with job applications and yesterday took a job down after 260 applications in 24 hours! They usually get about 10 in a week!
I hope your cousin gets something sorted OP.[/quote]
In order to claim constructive dismissal there must either be an act by the employer so heinous that it justifies immediate resignation without notice (there wasn't); or she must first go through the whole disciplinary process including appeals and then resign because the employer has done something so wrong that it goes to the heart of the contract (she didn't, and they didn't).

I'm sorry, but setting aside whether the comment was innocuous or not, the employer was well within their rights to consider theft gross misconduct. It is the theft of time to be on personal social media or similar during working hours. It doesn't matter if it is a minute or ten hours, whether it is a pen from the stationary cupboard or the weeks takings. It is all theft. An employer is entitled to take a zero tolerance attitude to theft; and, in fact, it is probably the best thing to do, because otherwise where do you draw the line between what it is ok to steal and what it isn't?

It may be harsh, but if her life is damaged - and I am a lot more sympathetic personally to this than it may appear - then she is the one who damaged it, not the employer. I am the last person in the line to stick up for employers in general, but that doesn't mean that everything they do is wrong. Unfortunately, in this case, what they did was right. It might have been the case that, had she presented her case and offered her employment record as mitigation, they might not have dismissed. They had every right to decide that. But it was their right to decide it. She decided to walk instead, so she will never know.

As far as disclosing this in references, no matter what the employer has said, they can certainly stipulate to the truth ("resigned under investigation") but in some circumstances, depending on the type of employer, they may be required to. That said, I don't think she's blighted her life (although now is not the best time to be looking for a job) - I think a version of the truth (I posted this on Facebook and the employer took exception and was disciplining me so I resigned; I was stupid to post it and have learned my lesson) without mentioning she did it during working hours, is likely to elicit a similar response as it has here, and many potential employers are likely to think it harsh. Mentioning doing it in working hours isn't sensible because no employer will sympathise with that.

And the OP's cousin needs to never go on social media or personal web browsing whilst on the clock ever again. I strongly doubt it was the first time that she did it, just the first time she was caught doing it. Too many people think that browsing the internet or social media on works time is harmless. It isn't.

@KatherineJaneway

I would suggest it's the during work time that is the problem, but even so it seems a bit strict for a first offence. Hard to tell without seeing the policy itself.

Agree. At my place of work they can see all the websites you've been on and when, so it could be she was checking Facebook or social media too often.

It was her own device. First offence.

@Moondust001

I've spoken with her a bit this week. I think she accepts the "theft of time" element. But its sure harsh, considering the "far worse" things that go on.

I hope that potential employers will be as understanding for her as the majority were on here.

It was her own device. First offence.

Unless she was on social media a lot she could have stood a good chance fighting the disciplinary. However I can understand not wanting the stress of it all.

It was her own device. First offence

But it wasnt in HER own time.

Thats why she lost her job. I mean, how do people get so stupid to do non-work things IN work time and then splatter in on social media where every man and his dog can see it?

Sounds harsh, but I dont have sympathy for your cousin at all.

She's been amazingly stupid and pissed away 14 years of hard work all in the name of FaceAche to get "likes" and a few comments.

More fool her frankly. If I was her employer, I'd show her the door too.

[quote shushymcshush]@Moondust001

I've spoken with her a bit this week. I think she accepts the "theft of time" element. But its sure harsh, considering the "far worse" things that go on.

I hope that potential employers will be as understanding for her as the majority were on here.[/quote]
It is your "job" as her friend / relative to be on her side. You are the shoulder to cry on. Quite right.

But you need to understand a few things. First of all, it is entirely irrelevant what "far worse" things she tells you goes on, or what the employer does or doesn't do about those things. Disciplinary action is not a pecking order or competition. If you happen to get way with something, then lucky you. But that doesn't make it ok for you or anyone else to do something wrong. Theft is theft. And it is also irrelevant whether she accepts that fact. It is a fact, and her acceptance isn't required.

I'm not unsympathetic, but she is wrong. It is tough luck her employer want sympathy but that does not make them the bad guys here. It is still her who did wrong. And being sympathetic or outraged about it not being fair, whatever that means, is not "being on your side" - it is being unrealistic.

And it may have been her first offence. It was actually the first time she got caught. How do I know? Because you aren't posting on your social media during working hours at all unless you are reading your social media, and you aren't reading your social media if you haven't got used to doing it. Anyone who doesn't use their social media are all in work time doesn't get caught posting to it.

You may be being a good friend, but defending what she did is condoning theft. Her employer might have been as sympathetic as people here. She won't know because she resigned, so she didn't give them the choice. But she was in the wrong.

[quote shushymcshush]@Moondust001

I've spoken with her a bit this week. I think she accepts the "theft of time" element. But its sure harsh, considering the "far worse" things that go on.

I hope that potential employers will be as understanding for her as the majority were on here.[/quote]
I would suggest that the quicker your cousin comes to acceptance of her responsibility in all this, the more likely she is to power through this current situation and get her career back on track (I am making the assumption that she does view work as a career not just a job, and therefore it is important to her).

All the while she remains in the "this is harsh" "this is unfair" the greater the delay in her changing her mindset.

She has damaged her personal brand / reputation (almost impossible to regain once harm is done), so she needs to move elsewhere, distance herself and learn from the mistake she made of posting comments on social media and decide to change her perspective.

Far too many people are tempted by SM platforms like Twitter as their opportunity to spout opinion. Whilst it may 'scratch an itch' in terms of voicing frustration, it risks the employee's personal standing, so if she doesn't want to get kicked out of her next role, she needs to have a big rethink. Fast.

And for the guzzillienth time, this is not Constructive Dismissal to the person who muted the possibility. No way.