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Original poster

Are my work being totally unfair? -Furlough related

41 replies

Rogben13 · 09/06/2020 16:28

Hello! So originally it was agreed (in writing but not signed) that I would be furloughed until the end of July. Originally I was furloughed due to no work, however I asked if I could be furloughed for longer due to me having both my kids at home still due to home schooling etc. My boss agreed that they’d keep me on furlough for as long as government allows it, however they would be reviewing at the end of July.
Thursday last week I got an email to say due to me being furloughed until the end of July they are taking 43 accrued hours off my holiday entitlement.
And would be required to take these at the end of July. I messaged them back and gave my reasons of why I thought it was slightly unfair, and they basically got a bee on their bonnet, became very offensive and basically told me I now need to come back to work next week (mon 15th) to me this seems totally unfair. Not only have I been given less than a weeks notice but they are still planning on taking my holidays away from me. I also had annual leave booked for April and May (booked before all corona/lockdown kicked off) and they never gave me any notice about it having to be cancelled, and they didn’t pay me the extra 20% to make it up to full pay either. Am I legally entitled to have these back??
I’m so annoyed as I kept my son off school purposely as I was told I could be furloughed until end of July, now his school is full capacity and he can’t go back! It just makes everything so awkward!
Does anyone know if I have any specific rights?
Thank you!

OP posts:

ChicCroissant · 09/06/2020 16:35

It sounds like they've given you the option to stay off work until the end of July by using your holidays but you have turned that down - is that right?

Thighmageddon · 09/06/2020 16:40

We had it explained to us that any holiday accrued during the furlough period was to be used whilst were furloughed. It was on the email we were sent and asked to read very carefully before we agreed to be furloughed.

RNBrie · 09/06/2020 16:42

Why didn't you send your son back to school when you had the option to and let your place of work know you were available again? It doesn't look great that you asked to be furloughed for childcare reasons but then didn't take up your school place when it was offered...

PurpleMystery · 09/06/2020 17:01

Jesus! How unbelievably entitled. Why do some people who’ve been off for months on 80% pay thinking they world owes them more and more. Your employer wanted you to return a bit early and use a bit of annual leave to extend your time at home until end of July. They probably can’t afford for you to be off until end of July and they found a compromise to try to help you out. You were completely unreasonable and I’m not surprised they are now being less flexible. Businesses have furloughed staff because they are struggling to survive, maybe next time try to think about how you can support them because if they fold you won’t have a job at all.

woodhill · 09/06/2020 17:02

I don't think they are

TiddyTid · 09/06/2020 17:02

YABU, sorry

flamingochill · 09/06/2020 17:04

Yabu They are allowed to take holiday from furloughed people

Original poster

Rogben13 · 09/06/2020 17:04

@RNBrie

Well for one I wasn’t 100% happy him going back to school with the infection/death rate as high as it was. And two I have a 2 year old at home and his nursery isn’t open yet. And lastly I was told from the very start I’d be furloughed until at least end of July, so why would I send my eldest son back when he could be kept safe at home with me being off work?

OP posts:

Elbels · 09/06/2020 17:05

I don't understand how you think you were being reasonable in the first place by questioning their request for you to use your leave in July.

Original poster

Rogben13 · 09/06/2020 17:06

@PurpleMystery

Yes. I am entitled as the government says so. I offered to return to work in July originally as my partner has some time off work and can look after the kids. They turned it down to start with. So what was I meant to do exactly?

OP posts:

Thighmageddon · 09/06/2020 17:07

How could they tell you you'd definitely be furloughed until the end of July?

We were told there was no definitive date and we were going to get 48 hrs minimum notice to return.

Crazycatlady83 · 09/06/2020 17:08

Furlough was put in place to help viable business keep afloat during unprecedented times, when there was no work in anticipation that there would be work eventually. Now your employer has requested you return because there is work for you. It seems like you made the request not to return and they have helped you out by asking you to take annual leave (I think keeping you on furlough is a bit of a red herring - if there is work, the firm will have to take you off furlough, it is likely they will be audited and any firms not abiding by the rules will be in trouble). Like it or not, Furlough wasn’t there to help people make childcare choices - it was purely an economical decision made by the government to keep the country afloat.

SunbathingDragon · 09/06/2020 17:09

Your employer can dictate to you when you take your leave, regardless of whether there is a pandemic or you have been on furlough.

Splattherat · 09/06/2020 17:09

All of our team are expected to WFH whilst homeschooling and supporting elderly parents etc. You are living it up at home chilling on full pay have knocked back your DC’s school place and now you want to have your cake and eat it. I would get back in touch sharpish and say you can take your leave at the end of July or ask if you can please take some unpaid special leave.

Stuckforthefourthtime · 09/06/2020 17:10

It sounds like everyone is being a bit U. To be clear:

You had holidays booked during the furlough period? If so, they are required to have paid you in full www.acas.org.uk/coronavirus/using-holiday
However they were allowed to require you to use holiday you accrued during furlough (or in fact, at all, with some 'reasonableness' guidance

If I were you and valued my job, I'd be writing back with an apology and a backtrack, to try to keep July.

FTMF30 · 09/06/2020 17:12

The only thing that sounds a bit unfair is that they are asking you to cone back earlier than previously agreed. But if that's in exchange for you keeping your AL, then what's the issue?

Some people want their cake and to eat it too. CV has created terrible situations for many people but those who have been furloughed (and will have a job to return too) have gotten off lightly. Be grateful you haven't been expected to continue working whilst juggling childcare, or are newly self employed with NO government support. You have been incredibly luck. Think about that.

Madvixen · 09/06/2020 17:12

You were originally furloughed because the company stated there was no work for you. You then asked for that to be extended because you didn't have childcare. Of course you should use annual leave for this. The furlough scheme was to avoid redundancies, not to provide childcare.

Moondust001 · 09/06/2020 17:14

I am entitled as the government says so

No you aren't and no they don't. Your employer decides whether they will furlough you, when that furlough ends, and what terms they will furlough you on. You have, effectively, had a paid period to look after your children - very nice, but the minute that you are told that you must use some holiday (which they are perfectly entitled to tell you to do) you have had a hissy fit - so they have called you out on it and told you to come back to work. Welcome to the real world, where you don't get everything you want.

Now you have no choice but to ask them if you can take holiday to look afer your children - and they can refuse. Congratulations - you just made life harder for yourself.

unicornparty · 09/06/2020 17:14

If you were furloughed for childcare reasons it's very unreasonable of you to not send your child to school when he was able to go. Your employer has been very considerate imo.

afromom · 09/06/2020 17:15

Your employer is being completely reasonable I'm afraid. I can see how in your head (and those of my colleagues who have been furloughed) it feels like a waste of leave. However, from a business point of view, they have already lost productivity for 4 months (1/3) of the year. If they were to allow people on furlough to then accrue and save up their holiday entitlement that would be around a further 10 days per employee without productivity (potentially soon after they return to work).

In my work team we have gone from 22 to 6 people. Those on furlough have been told to use their leave accrued before they return, otherwise they would all book it off for childcare reasons in August, resulting in those of us still working (without childcare issue) again unable to take a day off and at least until September to get the team back to some sense of normality. I personally have worked everyday since Christmas (barring weekends) with no leave - long days to keep up with the workload. I had some leave booked in April that I had to cancel as I was staying on at work and it wasn't a good time to be off. By August I'll be on my knees and will want priority for a few days off (regardless of others requirements) - I also have children but they are teens so don't need looking after as such!

PurpleMystery · 09/06/2020 17:20

“ Yes. I am entitled as the government says so”

People on this thread are telling you that that’s not actually what the government has said though aren’t they. Your company have been very fair and reasonable. You have not. But if you don’t want to listen to the replies on this thread and keep being awkward with your employer at a difficult time then go ahead. So far it doesn’t seem to have gone well for you. Good luck.

HouseOfEdwards · 09/06/2020 17:23

I think your employer has been fantastic for furloughing you for childcare reasons. Very understanding. I’m surprised that they were able to know that they wouldn’t need you until July as everyone else seems to be making decisions like that week by week.

I don’t know what you mean when you say it am entitled because the government says so’.

I am absolutely amazed that you are so outraged about your holiday pay.

Sandybval · 09/06/2020 17:24

Sounds more than reasonable to be honest.

Gizlotsmum · 09/06/2020 17:26

My husband got a weeks leave booked for him and was then given 48 hours notice to return to work, we are not sure if he still has to take the leave, they can book you leave, it helps mean everyone isn't trying to take a year's leave at the same time. It sounds like they have kept your original leave dates too. We are being encouraged to take at least half our leave to stop there being staff shortages later in the year....

I don't honestly think they are being unreasonable, either you have a work to return to do or they furlough you but with you taking leave for some of it....

Strangerthingshere · 09/06/2020 17:28

You have just been at home for months, and are complaining about your work using approx a week (if full time) of your holiday pay? Honestly, I'd just be grateful you still have a job to go back to during this pandemic and definitely wouldn't have got all irate about 1 weeks holiday pay

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