Manager issues

[Workhelpplease20]

I'm really struggling to get hold of help from my Union right now so was hoping to run it past someone here.

I've recently raised a grievance after an On-Call Manager was incredibly rude, he bullied me and threatened to call my Manager if I didn't do what he told me to do. This was over the weekend so I didnt have my Manager around and I disagreed with On-Call, saying he wanted me to put myself at risk for no reason.

The grievance has gone to my Manager who has edited it before sending it to HR! I wrote that my own Line Manager had been unsupportive and ignored me when I came to them upset about it and he deleted this part.

Should I go to HR and tell them that my grievance was edited? I wanted it mentioned but he deleted it without telling me, saying that what I wrote wasn't relevant.

If your grievance was partly against your manager, why on earth did you send it to your manager?

Personally, I wouldn't kick off about it right now. You have a grievance in against one manager, and then you want to amend it to include another manager.... honestly, it would make it sound like you are the problem. But that's just my opinion.

I'm not clear how saying that they would contact your manager is a threat. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation, that just sounds like a fact - if an employee refuses to follow an instruction, then contacting the manager would seem to be the appropriate thing to do.

You’re raising a grievance against both of them? The on call and your own manager?

I think you need to raise a separate one about your manager and send it directly to hr.

What were you asked to do that’s resulted in this?

Was the on-call manager requesting you go into work and you refused?

I think what the on call Mngr was asking is key here. Depending on what it was likely one of you was being unreasonable. It’s impossible to say which of you it was without further info.

If op it was you and I hope it wasn’t, then raising a grievance would not be a good idea.

No, sorry. I've not been very clear.
I was asked to go into someone's home who had Coronavirus for something not necessary, it's not even part of my job. I refused, but the On-Call bullied me and went on at me for over half an hour until I did it.

I raised a grievance against the On-Call only, but in there I mentioned that when I saw another Manager (who isn't above my Manager) and told them how upset I was, they ignored me and didnt tell my Manager, who didnt even know until I raised the grievance. I mentioned that I was unsupported.

I didnt want to raise a grievance against my Manager but I'm really not happy that he's edited by complaint and mis-represented me.

And I think he's only edited the grievance because he doesn't want himself and the other Manager to look bad in front of HR, but they really aren't doing their jobs. I told this Manager that I was nearly in tears and they just ignored me.

So you’ve raised a grievance about three managers?

Blimey.

What do you do and why were you expected to go into someone’s home who had Covid? And what do you mean had, do you mean past tense or has, current?

Some other random manager (and I am still not clear who this person was) is not responsible for doing anything about your complaints. They certainly aren't your messenger service to go tell your manager you are saying you are upset.

But now you are saying that your manager isn't doing their job either. I'm sorry but you are sounding like hard work. The first manager who gave you an instruction may or may not have been wrong about that - we don't know the circumstances. But then you complained at another manager later and expected them to run around telling your manager. So you want to complain about them even though they haven't done anything wrong. And now you are complaining about your own manager for not doing their job. Their jobs are not to give you a cuddle when you are upset, they are managers, not parents.

Leave the grievance as it is. You may be right about that, but your manager is also right that your expectations that people run around after you is not relevant.

Yeah I think your manager may have done you a favour here deleting it.

The ultimate question is what you do and why you were expected to go into that persons home

The manager deemed it necessary and part of your job. You deemed it unnecessary. One of you is right the other wrong.

You need to give more detail on the expectation, why you were expected and your role.

You also need to take the emotion out of it. But complaining about three managers is never going to go down well. Particularly if it’s tied to you refusing to do your job.

It doesnt matter who was in the right or wrong here, what matters is the OP has a right to have her grievance heard by an independent person who will make a decision based on facts and evidence. When the union hear her line manager has edited himself out of the grievance they will have a field day! Contact HR directly and submit the full grievance OP.

Of course it matters who is right or wrong. If she was wrong then she’s not only refused to do her job and then raised a complaint about three managers.

She could be in for disciplinary,

But yes she has the right to be heard, no one is disputing that. What people are trying to help her with is if she should ask for the complaint to be corrected or raise another one, or if it’s in her interests to not take the deletion further.

It really all comes down to why she was called to go to someone’s home, and if she had a right to say no, or if she simply refused to do her job then complained about everyone.

If you're that upset and worried then why are you out at all?
If your going into a home and wearing a mask and gloves, removing them on leaving and washing your hands then you will likely be ok.
What about when you go to a supermarket, do you think all the tins and packets have never been touched by any other human hands, that about the buttons on the card machine when you have to enter your PIN? If you have refused a reasonable request related to your work then you will be the one in trouble, trying to turn on management will not end well.

It doesnt matter who was in the right or wrong here, what matters is the OP has a right to have her grievance heard by an independent person who will make a decision based on facts and evidence. When the union hear her line manager has edited himself out of the grievance they will have a field day! Contact HR directly and submit the full grievance OP.
Her manager did not edit themselves out of the grievance. The manager said that her complaint about telling some random third manager who had nothing to do with anything was irrelevant, and it was. She expected the third manager to go and tell her manager that she' said she'd been upset at some point previously. That's isn't their job. She can raise a grievance about the incident, but adding a non-complaint about someone who it has nothing to do with undermines her complaint - she comes across as just being bloody hard work for managers. So her manager is quite right.

If you have refused a reasonable request related to your work then you will be the one in trouble, trying to turn on management will not end well.

This, exactly. I don't know what the original incident was about. We can't comment on what happened and who was right or wrong about it. But I'll be blunt - I am very, very surprised that this has been escalated to HR. This might be one of those rather rare employers where grievances are dealt with by HR. But it is unusual. Normally managers deal with them and HR might advise them if the manager needs support or advice, or, often, a witness.

Most places I have ever worked in or come across, I know what I would make of a manager who has sent something on to HR. It means they are looking to be very careful managing a problem member of staff who they believe may be heading towards termination, and they want to get it 100% right.

Now that may not be the case. Perhaps HR in this case do manage the processes. It's just unusual. But I know for a fact that if they get one against three managers all at once, they are not going to take it well, especially since two of them didn't do anything. So if the substantive complaint then comes down to one persons word against another, which it often does, who do you think they will believe OP?

So you refused to do something that the on call manager asked and you argued against it for half an hour. Then you did it. Then you bumped into/saw a different manager (not your manager) and moaned to them about it.

Then you put in a grievance about the on call manager. While doing so, you complained that the manager you'd moaned to hadn't told your manager about it (did you ask them to? Were they supposed to?) and that you felt unsupported when you said you were upset.

Your manager took that bit out of the grievance because it's irrelevant and now you want to complain about your manager as well for doing that.

I think you're making a not very positive name for yourself OP tbh.

No, as I said last time, the grievance was about one. The On-Call. When I was upset at being shouted at for refusing to go into someone's home who currently had confirmed Covid at the time, and my Manager's Line Manager knew I was upset, I assumed that they had told my Manager so I could be debriefed. I mentioned this in my grievance.

Of course I'm not in for disciplinary, because I didn't do anything wrong. My Manager confirmed this. My job involves going to people's homes but not that individual as they don't get visits. I was told to go to remind them not to go out which had been done on the phone already. Totally unnecessary and they had Covid so risky.

Do you know that this isn't AIBU?

Agree, and what people are trying to do is help the op.

If she has refused to do her job unreasonably then telling her to add back the managers complaint is just going to make it much worse for her.

If she’s right and she should have refused then she can also raise this at a later stage, raising a complaint about three managers is very serious, raising it about one is serious, never mind three, so she needs to ensure she was right in her initial actions that caused this chain of events.

The fundamental issue here is whether the on call manager was right in their request or not. And did a peer go and do it in her place and they did deem it fine, Or was there repercussions because what she was asked to do was not done.

Op what’s your job? It seems unusual you’d be asked to go to someone’s house to ask them to not go out.

Do you work with vulnerable people?

You said that in your grievance against the on-call manager you told another manager you were upset and they ignored and didn't support you and didn't tell your manager. So that IS making a complaint about them whether it was the main focus of your grievance or not.

Your manager removed that because it was irrelevant to your grievance against the on call manager.

Now you want to complain about your manager for doing that. So it may be one grievance but you're complaining about 3 managers when it all stemmed from you refusing to do something you were asked to do.

That's why people are telling you to tread carefully.

the grievance was about one

this is the only relevant thing. The rest is about your assumptions, and your expectations, not about reality. It seriously muddies the water and makes you come across as an constant complainer. You don't go to your managers manager to complain anyway, and you certainly don't then start telling the person that they manage that you want to complain about them! If you had a complaint about your managers manager (and seriously, you really are out of order in terms of your expectations) then you escalate it above them, not below them!

I'm sorry, but your manager is really doing you a big favour here and you are too wrapped up in your own world to see that. I don't know what the rights and wrongs of the original incident are, but you are not helping yourself get that resolved by launching random allegations about your manager and their manager not being able to do their jobs, especially since they have!

Stop and think about it. Look at how badly you have come across here. And we have no interests to protect. HR are always on the employers side - that is their only interest. How do you think it would have come across to them. Because that is what we have been telling you - it comes across really badly.

workhelpplease20
I feel you're getting an unnecessary hard time here & I hope you're ok.
I'm not sure I quite follow how many managers are involved?

1. You have a job with various tasks.
2. On Call Manager 1 tells you to do X
3. X is not your task & x has a H&S risk
4. You refused to carry out task
5. On Call manager acts inappropriately & you're upset
6. your line manager is off, you contact manager 2.
7. Manager 2 doesn't support you
8. you then raise a grievance against On Call manager (ref task) 8.1) Then add a grievance for Manager 2 as they did not support you?
9. The grievance goes to Your Line Manager, who removes Manager 2?

It would appear, (without knowing all the facts) to be an over reaction, however if you're upset, this does need to be managed, perhaps not via a grievance, who will pretty much always side with management.
I would say, assuming this is some sort of care facility, the rules around the Patient need to be established.
To clarify, no-one ever visits the Patient F2F, who now has Covid. (& this is documented?)
On call Manager decides you MUST do a F2F? You say, that's not what's in his pack? He has Covid, I'm not doing it? Why did the patient need a visit? How & who would visit in this situation?
i assume your grievance is about this manager not following the correct procedure, rather than him upsetting you? Which is of course unprofessional.
Im going to also assume you felt vulnerable, in the absence of LM, you contacted a manger, who you assumed would contact the On-Call manager, who would manage the situation by (perhaps) stating WHP20 should not visit Patient? This manger doesn't doesn't follow the correct process?
Out of interest, who does visit this Patient?
The grievance (now formal?) goes to your manager, who edits it & sends to HR?

Is this ^^ is accurate? Was the request to visit this Patient against company policy?
You need to deal with facts over this, unfortunately, no-one really cares if your upset, just whether everyone is doing their job correctly.
I would also question the need to F2F with a Patient, especially if they have Covid? That's your grievance if it's against policy.