Constructive Dismissal

[Moonlit]

Please help!!

I was forced to resign from my company a month ago. My boss gave me the option to choose my child or my job, when I asked for parental leave. I did not go into work for the one months notice I gave, because I had booked holidays a while ago and because on the advice on my GP.

I have been descriminated against at this company since I was pregnant.

1. I was not promoted
2. When I asked them to give me another appraisal they did not promote again
3. They did not carry out a health and safety when I was pregnant.
4. When I returned to work, I was told I could only have my salary increased 2% because I had been on maternity leave.
5. Then when I asked to be transferred to another department, at the internal interview I was asked if I was planning to have another child.

And the list goes on.

I am currently putting together a grievance letter. To I have a case against my company? As I will have to used the modified grievance procedure are there time limits for this?

Any advice on this would me most welcome.

Sorry, not been around much. I agree with Ellehcim, you do need to be careful of no win no fee, but they're fine if you get a decent one. The fees sound about right and, like Ellehcim says, it can be a false economy to go with someone more junior for a discrimination claim.

One point I forgot to mention is household insurance. If you have any, check it doesn't cover legal expenses. Some (quite a lot actually these days) do and it will take a weight off your mind if someone else is paying for all this!

moonlit, I did a no win no fee with a very big firm through a recommendation and it was fine - I think overall it was between 5K and 7K in fees.

Glad to hear you kept the mails.

Haven't read the entire thread so sorry if this repeats a lot of what has already been said.

1. If you go to tribunal your potential pay out is capped at £50k.
2. The legal cost of that is likely to be in the 5k range. My solicitor was £220 an hour plus vat, and that was almost four years ago.
3. If the otherside back down and decide to settle before hand you may be able to recoup some of the cost from them.
4. Be aware that it is a horrible experience and dealing with lawyers, even if they are on your side is tough.

In my case, my former employer settled before tribunal and if only for the reinstatment of my confidence, it was a worthwhile experience. Good luck

Moonlit, just for completeness, to add to what Trippleshot said:

• the limit for unfair dismissal is now £60,600; and

• there is no cap for discrimination cases; but

• except the award for injury to feelings, the award is calculated on your financial losses, not how bad the employer has been.

Hi Gingerone and Trippleshot

Would you be able to give the names of the law firms you used? I would rather go on recommendation, as trying to find a good employment solicitor is not proving to be easy.

Hi Everyone,

I thought I would update you on what has been happening. I sent in my grievance letter. But because i left it so late. I sent in an application to the Employment Tribunal also. The ET rejected my claim saying I needed to allow my company 28 days to respond. My company responded straight away. They are currently investigating my letter. I hope was within the time limits.

Lets see what happens!!!

Hi everyone,

It's been ages. I thought I would update you all on what has been happening. Well I sent a modified grievance letter to my company (because I had resigned). Anyway, my company did not reply. So I sent in a claim to the employment tribunal. I received a reply from my company quite quickly as a result. Basically the 20 page letter refused all my claims. All the people have lied in order to hold onto their jobs. They have made up complete lies. I am absolutely shocked. I don't know whether to cry or scream. I am so upset.

I am not stupid, I knew they would never hold up their hands and say, yes we did it and we will pay you compensation. But some acknowledgement of mistreatment would have helped.

So what do I do now. Hire a solicitor to represent me and let the employment tribunal judge make a decision? Or just let it go and let 'karma' get me the justice I deserve.

I would really appreciate any advice you could give me.

Thank you x

Moonlit have you spoken to a solicitor at all yet? If not I strongly recommend you do. You have a good claim with decent evidence but it is complicated and involved and you really shouldn't be doing this by yourself.

It is a stressful process so walk away if you think that's the best thing, but I think you have a really strong claim. Please talk to a solicitor who will be able to help you. They will explain how good the claim is, and the best way to go about it.

Can't remember if anyone's posted this link before but I did a search for solicitors with employment law in BUckinghamshire here, don't know if you've spoken to any of these?

and check to see if your house or motor insurance offers free legal cover - might help with sol's costs. In my limited experience if you can clearly refute what they have said in writing with the emails you have then once they get a sol's letter they know you mean business and will probably make an offer. But go to a solicitor!!!

Hi Flowerybeanbag,

I have found a solicitors near my home. He is a senior partner and charges 230 + VAT per hour. He says I can go with a less experienced person for less money. I would rather have someone more experienced, what do you think? My initial meeting will be on the 21st of Jan. What should I be asking to make sure he is the right person for the job?

Thank you

Hi, glad you've found someone. That's quite expensive, but someone experienced would be good I think.

TBH I've never had to find a new solicitor, where I've worked there's always been one already iyswim.

But from a personal point of view, I'd want to know about how many discrimination cases he'd done, and about recent cases he'd been involved with that were similar, and what the outcomes were. Has he given you some idea of what it will cost other than the hourly figure?

He says we can discuss cost etc at the intial meeting. I hope he will be honest and tell me if I have a case. Also, I forgot to mention another thing, the HR person I complained to about the most recent event (to choose between child or job) has not backed me up at all. She has told a competely different story. I thought HR were supposed to be impartial. Also, there is one other person in my team to whom my manager said the same thing about a year ago. She no longer works there (she left after I did), can I use her in my case?

Thanks Flowerybeanbag!!!

Moonlit HR people aren't technically supposed to be 'impartial', they are paid by the employer, so they are not neutral really. What they should be doing is giving decent advice to the employer about how strong your claim is, and they should be professional, which means not lying.

Having said that, as the employer is paying the HR person it would be difficult for them to give evidence that is incriminating the employer so much. The HR person is in a very difficult position, I'm not excusing lying at all, but he or she may have been given very little choice in the matter by your rubbish ex employer. A tribunal will know that as well.

You do have some proof in the form of emails and stuff though don't you? I can't remember without reading the whole thread again. And do you have notes of the conversations you had with HR?

With a claim in the EMployment Tribunal, it's not like in a court, where you have to prove something 'beyond all reasonable doubt'. Probability is often good enough, rather than absolute proof being needed. In that respect your solicitor may be interested in a statement from the other person you mention, to highlight that this is not an isolated incident and to weigh the balance of probability in your favour.

I would definitely expect your solicitor to be honest about how much of a case you have. From my non-lawyerly point of view you have a strong one, but he will know the technical ins and outs and how to play it.

Hi Flowerybeanbag,

Well I went to see a solicitor. I felt a lot better after seeing her. There was no sales pitch,which I was a bit strange.

Anyway, I told her I am using my savings if I decide to go ahead with this. I am using my savings so that is true. The reason I said it was because I wanted to to her to have some sympathy and not take me for a ride if I don't have a case. Can solicitors sympathise :-)

She said she wanted to take on my case, because it was different and nothing like she has done before. Well alarm bells are ringing in my head. No experience in parental leave for a sex discrimination case! But she seems quite confident that it will only take a few letters to my company to get them to compensate me.

What do you think. I am confused. Plus she was the only solicitor prepared to give me a free consultation following a lot of persuasion.

Help!!!!

Hi, am new to the site, and haven't read through the entire thread, but have you contacted the Equality & Human Rights Commission? I live in NI, & I know that our equivalent, the Equality Commission, funds individuals to bring cases against employers as there is no legal aid assistance. Have been through this particular mill, and I agree you need to develop a very thick skin (or belief in karma)

p.s. what line of work was it?

Hi greyskythinker

Another one from NI here

best of luck Moonlit, am shocked that an employer thinks they can get away with treating you this way!

Hi Moonlit.

Am horrified at your experience.
Based on what you have posted, you do seem to have been discriminated against as a mother. And as for asking you if you are planning to have another child - totally unacceptable. I wish you lots of luck in sorting this out.

Hi Everyone,

Thank you for all your support, this is going to be tough. But I have grown some thicj skin over the past few months.

Flowerybeanbag; sorry to keep pestering you. did you read my last post above? You have been so helpful, I don't know what I would do with you. Thank goodness for Mumsnet :-)

Hi Everyone,

Thank you for all your support, this is going to be tough. But I have grown some thick skin over the past few months.

Flowerybeanbag; sorry to keep pestering you. did you read my last post above? You have been so helpful, I don't know what I would do with you. Thank goodness for Mumsnet :-)

Hi Moonlit.

Is this solicitor at the same firm as the senior partner you were talking to before?

I'm not sure I would be happy with someone who hadn't taken on a case like this before. I think you have an extremely good case and I agree there is a high probability that a few letters would sort it out, but that depends on two things -

-That she writes good letters, makes the correct points in an appropriate way
-That your firm have good legal advice who will advise them of their tricky position and will advise them to settle.

If your firm either doesn't take legal advise or takes rubbish advice, they may try and push it further. Or if this woman is rubbish, that won't help either.

She may be very good, I can't speculate obviously, but there is that risk.

What happened about the other one you talked to?

Ooh, and about the solicitors having sympathy bit, despite their reputation, some of them definitely do....

Sorry that wasn't clear, I found myself using 'firm' because I had solicitors on my mind. Of course I mean your employers taking good advice.

HR impartial? That's SOOO funny...in an unfunny kind of way. I was unfairly dismissed from my job whilst undergoing fertility treatment after 3 miscarriages. It wasn't related to this, directly, but my boss started bullying me after she found out I was undergoing treatment. Coincidence? I think not!

I was advised by a snarling, nasty HR manager, in the middle of a grievance I'd raised about my bullying manager, that I had no job (since my lm had taken it away from me several weeks before...the straw that broke the camel's back) and so, was effectively redundant.

I disliked my manager (she was the named party in 4 unfair dismissal cases that year) but I kind of felt sorry for her as well. She had a breakdown a few months after I left...tried to top herself. She landed in clover though, getting a job that paid uber money in Europe. I still feel sorry for her...she'll never be happy as she was bullied when she was young and will always be a bully herself.

Back to the HR manager, I think he's the devil incarnate. His responsibility is supposed to be to ALL of his employees, but he was just a backstabbing, barking, bar steward. But I'm not bitter (much!).

I didn't get legal advice (which I vageuly regretted) but I took the Industrial Tribunal route (on advice from an independent HR manager from another part of the company) and got a settlement. It wasn't much money, but it covered my stay at home expenses when our daughter finally arrived!

Good luck with it all hun...and though you may feel like crap now, with everyone denying what happened, you know you're right. And the fact that you're strong enough to do something about it says something fab about you.

Hi Squilly,

I am sorry your manager treated you so badly. I certainly know how that feels. I was reading the 14 page response from my company again last night, and still find it shocking that everyone they have spoken to has lied through their teeth. Surely someone could have told the truth.

However, you went through a lot of crap at work and then were blessed with your beautiful daughter, who you most definitely deserve after he heartaches you have been through. I am sure she makes up for everything.

Thank you for your best wishes!