Furlough and redundancy?

[Churchillian]

Short version - how can I persuade my employer to put me on furlough?

I was told on Thursday afternoon that I will be made redundant. This is crappy as I will get v limited redundancy (only worked there for 2 years) and also as I have young primary aged kids at home, I’m not very attractive to new employers (have been working flexibly at home to do my contracted hours around the kids for current employer but I’m not available 9-5 as DH is doing the same.) Redundancies are as a result of re-organisation not directly related to C-19. DH and I earn roughly the same so this will result in a 50% drop in income, which is not sustainable for us in the long term. We have some limited savings and don’t have an extravagant lifestyle anyway, so little to cut out. (No debts, own one old car, mortgage, the usual)

I was due to have a couple of final interviews for new jobs but these were put on hold by the lockdown with no timing as to when recruitment will start again. I can easily see that I will not be able to work until schools re-open and recruitment in my industry is slow - typically taking 3-6 months so I could be out of work for at least 8 months and easily 12. This will be very tough and we may not be able to meet our bills even with more careful money management.

Currently I haven’t been offered furlough. Although I meet the criteria - employed on 28th Feb.

I would be happy to take the 80% of pay that is covered by the government grant so no additional cost to my employer.

My understanding is that they can still make me redundant after furlough ends.

Is this correct? When this was mentioned previously HR said that they will not furlough me as I’m not being made redundant as a result of c-19 but actually the reason
For redundancy doesn’t matter? (As an aside c-19 is affecting my employers business and they are cutting costs to try and compensate for this.)

Op unfortunately they are correct they can not put you on furlough - especially if any kind of consultation on redundancy had already happened before the covid-19 measures came into place - which is sounds like it had. You are one of a group of hard examples - like people who started a new job in early march, who just do not fall into the scheme.

Op I am assuming that you did know this was a possibility and that was why you were job hunting. If this came out of the blue then I think your employer is taking an extremely hard line not to use furlough- although it does depend on your role / industry a bit and there is nothing anyone can do as it stands to force an employer to usd the furlough measures.

@Ricstar. Thanks for the reply. There was a re-organisation mooted for many months but my job was only put at risk or redundancy 10 days ago after lockdown started. I was job hunting as a potential safety net.

The only benefit to the employer of furloughing you would be to make it easier to take you back on. If they aren't going to want to do that, there's no benefit, just cash flow problems (waiting for government furlough money to come through) and having to deal with the redundancy all over again once furloughing ends. So I can't see an easy argument to make.

I was made redundant last month. I had started interviewing as it was obvious it was on the cards. It was due to a restructure rather than Coronavirus. IMO we were already heading into a downturn prior to Coronavirus striking.

I was in the process for 4 roles - 3 have gone on hold and the 4th one is still going ahead as it is in an essential industry but the process is taking ages. I’ve had a phone interview and video interview and they have said that they would like me to come in and see the offices for a final interview but that won’t be for a few weeks.

I work in a head office type role though, so my skills are transferable across industries and some industries do ok during a downturn - essential spending (companies that make or sell toothpaste, loo roll, essential food), utilities, some areas of the public sector for example. I’ve decided that I’m not in a position to be picky about sector and whilst it’s nice to get a pay rise when you move jobs that may not be the case right now and I may even have to take a bit of a drop, just to have a salary coming in. I can always move on again, once the market picks up.

But given the timing of the redundancy, I think I may have a case for unfair dismissal? My employer is saying that they had planned to make these changes anyway, but as they were not announced until after the lockdown I have no idea if that is true. This is a large employer btw who do not yet have serious cash flow issues,

Have you been there for over two years or just under? You can only claim unfair dismissal if over 2 years or if you feel (and can demonstrate) that you have been discriminated against due to a protected characteristic.

I have been there for 2.5 years. Even though a restructure has been on the cards for 6 months, we had been previously told that it would involve minimal or no redundancies. A new structure was given to the team with large numbers of redundancies 10 days ago after lockdown started. I have been selected for redundancy by people who don’t know me well because of several interim reporting lines over the last 6 months - I have had my current manager for 6 weeks and have only met in person with him once. I am cheap to make redundant as I have only worked there for 2 years and I also have had to makey manager aware that I cannot work 9-5 due to having small children which impacts on my job. Surely there is case for this on several grounds:

(1) Employer choosing to make a large number of people redundant after lockdown when they had previously said that this was not their intention.

(2) Being selected for redundancy because of the impacts of C-19 personally ie not being available for 9-5 business hours due to childcare.

(3) Being selected on the basis of low redundancy pay to the business. I’ve checked and no-on that I work with directly had been asked to contribute to the selection process or to offer feedback on my performance, not even the new interim manager.

My knowledge and experience is sector specific. Also as I mentioned above, I am affected by childcare/homeschooling of young children until school reopen so not an attractive prospect to any new employer who is still hiring - and will probably have lots of other candidates to choose from.

Just to make it clear, a position should be made redundant, not a person.

Your employer should be able to demonstrate that they have selected the people in the redundancy pool fairly. So for example, if you have 10 people in a team doing the same or similar jobs and it is decided that due to economic reasons that only 8 are needed, all 10 of those people should be in the redundancy pool. An employer can then look at appraisals, disciplinaries, attendance (although they need to be careful with this as they may face a disability related unfair dismissal claim), aptitude for the job etc to decide which 8 stay and which 2 are made redundant.

In my case, the whole team were made redundant and it wasn't possible to redeploy us due to our skill set no longer being needed.

Are you in a stand alone role that is no longer needed? If not is there a selection pool of people who have the same or similar types of skills that are also under notice of potential redundancy? Or (like me) is it a whole team that is no longer needed due to a change in business strategy?

I don’t think your point 1 above gives you a claim as your employer has a right to make redundancies due to economic reasons. Your points 2 and 3 may give you a claim though - if your employer hasn’t followed a fair process ie a selection pool and Fair selection of those in the pool.

Hope someone can give you proper legal advice,are you a member of a union?
If they can furlough you it would be really helpful, its probably a bit if a grey area as redundancy happened after lock down but ultimately it sounds likely that they would need to lose your post anyway and they will be giving themselves lots of extra paperwork etc. I dont think they can be made to furlough you, its just a case of appealing to their better nature. Its a rubbish situation to be in, I'm really sorry.

I’m an HRBP but can only advise on statutory as I haven’t seen your contract.

I think ETs are closed but if you aren’t in a union you could phone ACAS.

”I think I may have a case for unfair dismissal?”

That would either be because the redundancy isn’t genuine or because you have been unfairly selected.

What did they give as the reason and as the selection criteria?

Your first post said redundancies were due to reorganisation so that’s a valid reason. They should be clear about the new structure and how jobs were selected for redundancy. The ACAS web site gives you info. However if it’s restructuring then it’s legitimate. The criteria for selection should be fair though.