Another Furlough Dilemma wwyd?

[Iwantmychairback]

I am a company accountant, been there for 18 years. Work a three day week usually. Fairly happy with the job, not really looking to move on.
I have two assistants. One does purchase ledger tasks, the other ‘B’ does credit control and wages.
One director. The director and ‘B’ have known each other 20 odd years, they are both married to other people, but are friends outside work.
When our company closed 2 weeks ago the director furloughed me, but kept ‘B’ on to do HR stuff and wages. She is being paid full pay but only working 3 days.
The director has emailed me a couple of times asking about work related stuff. No problem happy to help where I can. Today, he asked me to set up a payment, again, no problem, it will take me ten minutes.
However, he is also asking about the VAT return which has to be done by the end of this month. ‘B’ has never, ever done it and wouldn’t know where to start. There is perhaps, 5 days work for someone in order to get an accurate return submitted. It’s not something I can do from home, as I need access to the physical paperwork, not something I can teach anyone to do over the phone.
I’ve not yet replied to his email as I don’t know how to reply if he now asks me to go in to do it. On one hand, I want to keep the company going, and this will help, on the other I am so, so, so annoyed that he put friendship over practicality at a time like this. I can easily do 100% of ‘B’s job, she can do 20% of mine....
Wwyd if he asked you to come in in this situation?

I'm not sure what you expect. The furlough scheme is hugely generous. Sadly it won't be enough to support companies who have no cash in the bank. Furloughing can't possibly go on for 12 months!

Scheme has cost 4x estimate so far. I don't think it will be extended. Economy will decline further from may June. All jobs, including previously safe professions are at risk.

Scary times indeed.

@oblomov it is the director committing fraud by getting staff to work and furlough. Plans to open a whistleblowing line for staff to report.

Why can't these finance staff work from home?

Just a wild guess but not all businesses have systems that employees can access from home. They can't suddenly set that up overnight when they've never needed it before. A friend of mine owns a small business and has an admin person a couple of days a week but that person can only use the business computer system from the office, she has no way or money to implement some kind of home working solution.

I’d say I can’t risk my professional qualification by knowingly going against HMRC guidance & say I can only do it if un-furloughed.

No one seems to be grasping my point.

This all seems very unfair in finance staff.

Most directors will want their all staff furloughed. If the company has shut down.

But hey. I know. Let's furlong all staff. But I tell you what, let's NOT furlough any accounts staff or anyone who deals with payroll.

How is that fair?
Bet my boss (I have a couple of small part time roles) will be thrilled. NOT!

Your basic premise is wrong oblomov , there's nothing fair about Corona. It's not fair that some people die and some don't, it's not fair that some people are made redundant and some aren't, what do you want to happen?

We can't change the way business operates, if some accounts staff have to work so be it, what's your solution?

The furlough is there for staff who temporarily don't have work to do, so that hopefully they can be reemployed without being laid off permanently.

It is not there to give all staff a 3 week holiday or technically to help already struggling businesses to avoid a wage bill that they can't pay.

I don't mind working. I'm loving it. I don't mind.

You've misunderstood me.

Can you explain again, you're right, I obviously don't get your point

No.

I'm really sorry. Clearly I'm not explaining myself very well. none of you understand my point.

I'm really sorry, let's just let this go.

This isn't just about me.
It's re many, most businesses.

If they've closed. No income. But some staff, ie payroll staff, and others. Need to carry on working? Behind the scenes. I don't generate any income. But you need me. To pay the staff.

So where does the director get the money from, to pay those staff?

If the business is shut?

If the business literally has no access to any cash to pay the non furloughed employees then sadly they'd have to close down. I know someone this has happened to, not very well but we'll enough to know he lost his income overnight and has little chance of getting a new job until this is over.

I guess businesses should have enough money for this sort of situation - Dh has a company with not great cash flow and not eligible for the grants offered, so it means him and the other 2 directors won’t get pad as they pay the staff before themselves. Otherwise it will be extending their overdraft or getting a loan

I guess businesses should have enough money for this sort of situation

I think that's a bit unrealistic, no one could have imagined this sort of situation, saying they should have done is silly imo.

Sorry to be harsh but the reality is :
Companies need to furlough staff that have been affected by the pandemic because of loss of income. Most companies should keep on some staff to do basic functions either because of cash flow or loans or by alternating furlough for the minimum 3 weeks. Other companies who can't do this will go to the wall.
Asking you to do any work while on furlough (other than training that doesn't add income to business) is fraud. HMRC have said they are going to be really hot on this. The business made a poor business decision - they have to deal with it

@AuditAngel we have been advised that those on furlough can still take part in soxial activities, personal development and have access to internal systems to keep-up with Xolleageus socially.

I'd say that if a business didn't have enough cash in its reserves to pay their finance manager for 3 months, then it's probably not much of a going concern anyway.
My DH works for a small company. About 40 staff. 3/4 have been furloughed and the rest are either WFH or working at the factory. The person who does the financial stuff is WFH. They have been told that the business is only sustainable for 3 months in this way, then it would have to furlough everyone and the directors would complete all the relevant financial stuff.

oblomov you are in finance but can't work out what happens to a business that can't pay its remaining non-furloughed staff?

I think that's a bit unrealistic, no one could have imagined this sort of situation, saying they should have done is silly imo
It's not silly to think a viable business would have enough to pay some of its staff for a couple of months while others are furloughed.

Yes. I can work it out.

@Oblomov20 yes I’m saying don’t furlough the finance people you need, we haven’t. We have a basic core staff still going, everyone else is furloughed. The point of furlough is the job may otherwise the threatened with redundancy. If there’s still a whole job to be done it’s clearly not redundant is it?

Definitely not doing any more work until I’m taken off furlough.

No to whoever asked if they were shagging. Certainly are not.

And yes, it will take about 5 days to produce a correct VAT return. Half the deliveries we tried to make on Tuesday were rejected, but have been invoiced, so I would need to go through 100 plus sales invoices to work out which need to be credited / moved to a later month.
Less than half the purchase invoices are on the system. Again, we may not have received the delivery in March, but the invoice had already been raised, so the invoices need matching to the delivery notes before entering into ?March accounts. Then of course, some invoices will be stuck in the post office somewhere as we weren’t open to accept delivery so I would need to check statements for missing invoices, then chase up emailed copies....so I’m guessing around 5 days work left to get a return anywhere near accurate.