Confused... Holiday pay, marernity

[miasg1343]

So I started my job in 2017. I never had a formal contract. Which wasn't a problem. I only did 9 hours a week as the only employee.

I never got sick or holiday pay and I didn't really expect it.

However, having expanded there are now 4 staff and so today I've been given a formal contract to sign. It now includes paid holiday, it is back dated to the day I started.

I have no problems with it... It's just that I just this month returned from maternity leave... So did i accrue holiday while I was off?

I'm just not sure as they've back dated it to my start date in 2017 so what about the holiday pay? I have no idea. Does it just start from my return date?.??

Sorry... More to add,

From everything I'm reading I think I can deduce a few things. Anyone agree or disagree with these?

1. Holiday pay is statutory and I should have received it since I started in 2017.

1. I am probably owed all of my holiday since I started.

1. The fact that time to take or roll over the holiday has passed is void by the fact that I didn't get told I was entitled to it until today. Which is tantamount to deliberately trying to prevent me having it (regardless of it being accidental)

1. Given that to take 2 years of holiday now (e.g. 12 weeks worth) is highly implausible the only other alternative is to be paid what I'm owed?

Am I missing something here? Is there a reason I wouldn't have been entitled to it? I should add my employer was and still is new to this so I am certain it wouldn't have been a deliberate act. As an employee however it isn't my fault that they were uninformed or didn't seek the correct advice in the first place.

Annual leave continues to accrue whilst you're on maternity - it should be taken either before you go off or when you return. I would suggest that you should be paid for
previous years, and are entitled to take this years.

Update

Had a meeting with them, I made it clear I'm not demanding the money (although without saying as much I was hoping they'd understand they have a moral and legal duty to pay an employee what's due)

I really just wanted them to understand the rules and the situation I and them are in.

They don't want to pay it (naturally)

They feel like they're a small business, who were just starting out and that this is a lot to ask of them.

So are they saying that I the employee should be taking the hit financial for them not knowing their obligation?

They said that my contract is generous enough without this.

I feel a bit like they've taken on becoming an employer without accepting all of the responsibilities that comes with it. I mean what would they do in my shoes? Accept that they have to take a pay cut to do the company a favour?

I'd speak to ACAS - they should be able to advise you on what your employer should be doing, what your legal rights are etc. Unfortunately, it could get a bit messy.

They've obviously acknowledged they owe you the holiday as they've given you a contract stating as much. Are they just disputing the maternity leave accrual?

They don't get to decide that statutory entitlements are 'too generous', nor do they get to opt out of statutory requirements by being a small business. Those days are very long gone!

did your hours ever go up? if it was only ever 9hrs a week, i'd not be expecting anything regardless of legals.

I agree it's just going to be messy. I either force them to pay me what's owed. A tribunal will side with me. And then probably quit... It would hardly be a nice working environment afterwards.

Or I accept never getting it and move on. Why back date the written contract then?

Flowery they have no intention of paying arrears, not even for maternity. They want to start it going forwards and nothing else.

Pinkdelight3 yes to add another issue to the mix. My hours before maternity leave were double. So they're not even offering me the same job I left before maternity.

Acas have said I informally bring it up in person first. Which I did today.

In writing next, outlining that I'm entitled to take it to tribunal because it's statutory and legal.

I agree they might not want to pay it but thats not a choice they can make right?

And they've just sent me a message to say I'm only needed 1 day next week (4.5 hrs) and bring the old contract back they'll change it.

Employers who show a clear intention to deny you your basic statutory entitlements and blatantly discriminate against you for taking maternity leave are employers who don't value you at all. You are sounding loyal to them and while loyalty is good, you need to lose it fast when we're talking about the worst kind of employer, who thinks statutory rights can be disregarded because they are inconvenient. You owe them no loyalty at all. And if the working environment deteriorates because they treat their staff so poorly, that's on them, not you.

You have a very clear and easy tribunal claim should you wish to pursue it. You should start with a formal grievance. Do not just accept it and 'move on'. You'll never move on, you'll resent them hugely, quite rightly. You should look for a new job with an employer who treats staff at least according to the minimum required by law, which is virtually every employer because most of them are not completely stupid and if you're going to do that, there is no reason at all not to claim what you are owed.

I am cross on your behalf. My consultancy works almost entirely with small businesses, and has done for nearly 12 years now. Not one of our clients treats staff this badly, however cash-strapped they might be.

I am cross and dumbfounded at their behaviour, I also can't believe the other 3 employees are happy with this. Which apparently they are.

Definitely don’t give them the old contract back, and keep that message requesting it and attempting to change your hours.

Legally an employer must provide an employee with a written contract within 2 months of employment start date.

As you’ve been there for over 2 years, the lack of written contract issued within that legally required period, plus the attempt to now alter that contract could be grounds for you to sue for constructive dismissal.

I should say - to me, their attempt to get you to sign a backdated contract smacks of covering up the legal problems of them not issuing this in the first place.

I'm glad ACAS was able to advise you. I'd definitely pursue it if you feel able - it's shitty behaviour from them. They shouldn't be employing anyone if they can't do the basics correctly.
I'd imagine the other employees are scared of losing their jobs, plus they may not be owed as much as you as you've worked there longer. Have you spoken to them yourself or taking your employers word they're happy?

I only have their word for it. And we were only saying the other day we hope covid 19 doesn't send us home we can't afford to be off.

So no I doubt anyone knows and that is another reason I felt obliged to raise it because I felt morally bound to my colleagues.