Annual Leave and Lunch Break

[toni74]

Can someone clarify the following for me:

I work 9am - 5pm, Monday thru Friday. my contract states I work 37.5 hours a week.
So I’m getting an unpaid 30 minute lunch break each day.

On my timesheet, a day worked is recorded as 7.5 hours and when I book a days annual leave it appears as 7.5 hours.

Ok so I’ve asked about taking half a days annual leave and just wanted to check what time I’d be expected in, I’ve been told I would loose my lunch break. This doesn’t make sense to me, so for example if I booked 3 hours off in the morning, I’ve been told as I’m only working 5 hours I’d get a 20 minute break...this seems to me that by using my annual leave for half a day I’m loosing my lunch break...can someone clarify is this is correct?

You don’t get paid for your lunch break
If you work less than 6 hours you are only entitled to a paid break and not half an hour unpaid lunch break

That's a rather careful interpretation of the Working Time regs IMO, as you are entitled to a break if you work 6 hours or more - however, I would add that the break is supposed to be within your working time and not at the start or the end. Lunch breaks are usually unpaid IME.

Are your holidays measured in hours or days? So if you've booked half a day are they expecting you to come in at what would normally be your lunchtime but take a break at a different time? When I've taken half a day I've either left at the start of lunch (afternoon off) or come in at the end of lunch (morning off). What are they proposing for you?

If you book 0.5 day off you would work 3h 45m (commonly up til lunch or after lunch). If you book your leave in hours (unusual for FT staff) the you only get a paid 20-min break after 6 hours so if you book 3 hours off you should work 4.5 hours without a break to make up a full day.

Why is losing an unpaid break a concern? If book half a day off you are only working half the day so why do you need a lunch break? If you are booking time off in hours then whether you get a break will depend how many hours you work, I imagine.

Would you not come in after your lunch break time? So 9-12 would be the 3 hours and then come in at 12.30 and work until your usual finish time. They dont actually need to give you a break if you work under 6 hours.

To pp, the 20 minute legal break doesnt need to be paid

I have the same set up with hours etc and it always confuses me when I request anything less than a full day's annual leave. My boss has just said to me to deduct the hours of AL I want from 7.5. So, I want three hours off, I will still need to work 4.5 hrs. I deduct this from my 5 pm finish time to get my start time that day of 12.30pm. I don't get a lunch break unless I want to actually come in at 12. But this will still be unpaid.

Work it back from your finish time. So if you book half a day, you work half a day so 3.75 hours. To finish at 5pm and work 3.75 hours, you start at 1.15pm but don't get any breaks.

Or if you start at 9am and want half day in the afternoon, you would finish after 3.75 hours of work so 12.45pm.

So we can book annual leave off in days and hours. I thought like others if booked 9-12 off as annual leave I could then start at 12;30, as I would be coming into work after my lunch break. But I've been told that's not the case that I would start 12 and work through to 5. I don't understand why I'm suddenly loosing my unpaid 30 minute break..,hope that makes sense...

If I leave an hour early (by booking an hours leave) then I'd still get the 30 minute break...

You work 7.5 hours a day. So half a day is 3.75 hours. So if you start at 9am you finish at 12.45.
You don't have a break because you haven't worked enough hours.

If you work 7 hours and 30 minutes in a day

Then if you book 3 hours annual leave then you would only need to work 4 hours, not 5 hours

I’d be unhappy about that rather than my unpaid lunch break

Unless you work some type of flex system

They cant have it both ways. They either let you start after the unpaid break or they let you have the 30 minutes break as usual so that the hours add up correctly

Someone asked why I'm bothered about loosing. Lunch break when I'm on al...my concern is I would be giving my employer more of my time, when I've booked some time off that comes out of my al allowance...for example a colleague booked 5 hours off as annual leave but left at midday that means in terms of hours she's recorded 8 not 7.5...that's what I don't understand.

I could just not ever book half a days annual leave

In that situation though you would still be working for 6.5 hours and you would need to take a break.
If you are booking half a day off so only working 3.75hours then no break is required.

I do this
We work 9-5 with 30 mins unpaid lunch.
If I book a half day annual leave in the afternoon I work 9-12:45 (3h45mins ie half of my working day) If I book a half day annual leave in the morning, I work 13:45-5 (3h45mins ie half of my working day) so I haven't worked my lunch break either way.

Sorry afternoon hours are 13:15-5

”I thought like others if booked 9-12 off as annual leave I could then start at 12;30, as I would be coming into work after my lunch break. But I've been told that's not the case that I would start 12 and work through to 5. I don't understand why I'm suddenly loosing my unpaid 30 minute break..,hope that makes sense...”

That’s not right. Your working day is 7.5 hours. Therefore if you book 3 hours off, you need to work the rest of the day which is 4.5 hours.

3 hours isn't 1/2 a day though. If you only want 3 hours off then you'd need to work 4.5 hours to make up a full day.
If you want 1/2 day off, you only need to work 3 3/4 hours to make up a full day.
If you leave an hour early, you'll have already worked 6 hours, that's why you're entitled to your 30 min break.

Her employer is saying she cant come in after her lunch break would be though. They want her to work 12-5 which is 5 hours whereas if she has booked 3 hours off she should only be due to work 4.5 hours to make up to a 7.5 hour day

But surely you book off whatever the balance of hours is . So if you work 2-5 it would be 7.5 -3 ie. 4.5 hours leave.

So they either let you come in at 12.30 or give you a 30 minute break so you only do 4.5 hours

Thankyou for the feedback...it does all make sense to me...I'm just not sure how my employer is calculating it...so I might just do the 3.75 hours and take it from them...the other problem I have is that my colleagues seem to just accept it...😫

Have a word with HR or alternatively tell them you want a half day annual leave so you’ll be in at 2pm

I'm part of a Union aswell, so will check with them aswell....thank you everyone...

Dropzone and ginger cat's interpretations make sense to me. If your employer is right, you are working 5 hours out of a 7.5 hour day, which is not "half" of 7.5 hours.
It's frustrating arguing against a nonsensical rule, but it sounds like you're being perfectly reasonable. Good luck.

If you are booking off hours, rather than half a day, same principle applies - you work 7.5 hours a day so booking 3 as annual leave means you work 4.5 hours without a break. To finish at 5pm, you would start at 12.30pm.

Your employer is saying you work 8 hours a day, you need to remind them that's inclusive of 30 minutes unpaid break so the hours you "owe" each day is 7.5. Otherwise you are working your unpaid break!