Civil Service

[Asimovsfutureishere2020]

Hi,

I wonder if I could get some advice from people as I would like opinions on CS careers and have seen really valuable advice to other posters on here in the past.

I have been accepted to the CS as Customer Service Consultant with HMRC. Entry level pay as an apprentice. I am a mature woman (late 40s) previously a teacher, then did a masters in STEM. I can use python/quant methods of analysis but not much real experience just thesis based. I have some experience working with Git/web sites/HTML, etc.

So, my tech experience is junior but there is some higher level stuff which I have the aptitude for and understand. I have accepted the CS role at apprenticeship level as I really like going in at the ground level and understanding how things function on frontline/operational level but I am ambitious and want to progress fairly quickly.

In the past, I have tried this strategy (not with CS) and I have become stuck at Ops level as that it were I was identifiable.

I would really appreciate feedback from others on my plans and whether you think they are realistic/achievable/practical. I have also got some personal/family things going on at the moment so it suits me to spend a year/18 months at a level wher I will feel confident and secure in a structured environment (particularly due to current changes in CS).

My reasons for CS are, in short the structured training, environment, career options and pension.

My options for tech: can only do python, not very confident, wages would progress after experience but so could CS.

Any views?

Thanks,

It is definitely a confidence thing. In many ways, it shouldn't be as I have sustained a distance course (not easy) through some big health issues plus taught myself pretty much python and have read huge amounts on the topics. I presented a paper at a university conference in 2016 and recently attended a conference with Google and MS guys who work in NLP. I could follow everything, no problem. I have networked a lot in and around the field of machine learning and AI.

Just very nervous about what I don't know, I guess.

You sound way overqualified and i think you'll get frustrated with the role very quickly. I'm not sure exactly what a customer service apprenticeship involves but I would have thought that there were more suitable apprenticeships at least that would be a better fit. I know the government statistical service has data analyst apprenticeships.

But i still think you're setting your sights too low, it sounds like you'd be capable of an HEO role as a minimum.

You can if you're a grown up with a masters and a whole career already. So much in software development is actually about judgment and wisdom. They say junior devs ask "Can I? and seniors "Should I?" - that part you will get quickly as you've got life experience.

45k salaried for mid level outside London. Probably higher within but I wouldn't ever work in London so I wouldn't know.

(Obviously there are much better paid high roller type jobs - Deep Mind will pay 10x that and more - but for us earthshod wretches who just want a steady gig... )

@Lojoh that makes sense - I am a sensible grown up now. I fought it for long enough.

I have good experience from teaching - organising, delegating, planning, etc plus some other stuff using Trello boards/Git.

I have had a quick look at Power to Fly and will take onboard what you have said. It could come down to the fact that I just can't visualise working in that environment (Private sector tech) whereas I can the CS.

I am put off by all the beanbags and trendiness and people being larger than life.

Physically, I am also not sure if I could keep up (until I have the surgery) so that was another reason.

There's no beanbags where I work (well I'm 100% remote anyway, and only work 3 days a week). Most tech jobs are not like that. But also, I think you're reading it wrong. All that guff - the beanbags and free beer and climbing weekends - they're trying to woo you. They're not trying to intimidate you.

You see, the thing to understand is they actually want you. Your skills are both somewhat rare and hugely productive. Even if you've got no idea what the company does, just the fact that you can probably learn it quite quickly and then make it more profitable, means they want you. Ignore the utter nonsense they write in their ads (React experience essential, Javascript nice to have ) - that is just their anxiety about hiring someone who turns out NOT to be productive. But you will be, because you're a grown up and that is 90% of what they need.

Just found my CS interview score (21). Not sure whether that is strong or not.

Thanks, @Lojoh

I need to focus on what I do know, rather than what I don't.

I really like remote working.

I completely understand your lack of confidence after completing the PGCE myself, what a demoralising profession, you’ve probably had your confidence knocked immeasurably.

However, you are very overqualified for the HMRC role, I was working with colleagues that had been working behind a bar and stacking shelves at ASDA prior. I’m not sure whether this would be a good move for your self esteem.

@WhatNext2020. I know, it’s my concern too. I think that’s why I am being over diligent with the tech stuff. I think I have to have a very clear plan for where I see myself in 6 months, 12 months, etc. It’s the only way it will work and try and do some projects on the side. I am in the city now and thinking it would be nice to be somewhere hip again!

Don’t know what to do for the best - have to have a think.

I’m HMRC. I know loads of people doing that exact job. It’s deeply monotonous. You’re micromanaged. You’re in a call centre environment essentially, where there’s an obsession with call stats and taking as many calls as possible during your shift. Morale is extremely low. New recruits often leave within a year or two, unless they’re lucky enough to get a Band O role in a different department. If I were you, I’d decline, or I would accept and plan to apply for promotions ASAP before I was ground down/stuck. HMRC in general is good but that particular job really is dismal.

I’m back in a meeting now but will be online later to reply to you @Patch - thanks for advice.

Look up the government analysis careers framework and then routes into analysis.

Apart from the fast stream, there's general recruitment for roles all year round - many will be reserved for current civil servants only, so taking any civil service job and then applying for something more interesting is how most grads get in.

It's a common complaint that any EO (AO outside london/policy) that's any good gets promoted within five minutes, but no-one thinks less of them for it.

@jackparlabane so it could work going in at this level.

@Patch23042 I don't think it will start for a few months and I will keep an eye out for other stuff. I think doing a few projects I can put on Git would help.

I have done a similiar job before and I know about the micromanaging - you are also set up to never achieve 100%. I just need routine and structure at the moment - supply teaching has left me a frazzled mess.

@jackparlabane I've just looked up the framework - there are some great resources there I can look at and a lot of stuff I know - my thesis topic is ethics, vis, python, large datasets.

You are all a persuasive lot! I got home this evening, checked on here, looked on the CS website, saw a post for User Researcher DEADLINE 11:55 TONIGHT and have just got the application in!

Am shattered

Congratulations @Asimovsfutureishere2020! Hope it and future applications go well (I need my analysts!)

Thanks, @jackparlabane Its a start in the right direction! Strange thing is that when I started the statement part I realised I had lots to write down - it needed some fine-tuning and if I don't get it will at least make a good basis for the next application.

@jackparlabane

Didn't get post, Jack. Not shortlisted for interview. Not the greatest of applications admittedly as rushed and some tenuous links to user research in other jobs but a bit disappointed.