Redundancy help

[munchkinduck]

Hi all.

Partner has been off work with mental health illness for 12 weeks signed off by a dr. During this time he has been in contact with occupational health who have made recommendations for his return to work which has been agreed by partner and his employer.

Yesterday he went for a meeting with his boss regarding the days he will work during his return to work which went really well. As the meeting finished someone higher up came in and offered him money to leave and said that if he does not take it he will be placed on a final warning which can mean sacking on the spot. This has obviously negatively impacted his mental health again.

We are going to go to citizens advice and speak to his dr about this but where does he stand? Surely this is unfair dismissal as he has been off with an illness and has made reasonable adjustments so that he can return to work as soon as possible.

Hope someone can give us some advice.

Thank you

Speak to Acas - they will advise you far better than anyone else.

Is he in a union? They can represent you and get legal advice. If not, could you afford your own legal advice and would you want the stress of taking this to tribunal?

They're not offering redundancy, it's more likely to be a settlement agreement (money in exchange for not talking them to a tribunal). You need to think hard if the money is enough. They should also pay for him to see a solicitor to look over the agreement.

Could you let us know how long he's worked for the company?

Yesterday he went for a meeting with his boss regarding the days he will work during his return to work which went really well. As the meeting finished someone higher up came in and offered him money to leave and said that if he does not take it he will be placed on a final warning which can mean sacking on the spot.

How long has he worked there? If under 2 years' service his employer has more latitude to pull this kind of stunt, but they are, all the same, on thin ice threatening him with "on the spot" dismissal for not accepting their proposal instantly.

If they were a good employer, they would present him with the facts, then follow up in writing and suggest he seeks his own legal advice. They should not resort to threats.

The question to ask is whether it's a redundancy situation and whether it suits your DH to take the money they are offering. If he sees it as an opportunity to get out with sufficient funds to tide him over until he can secure new employment he may decide to take the deal. If they are offering him less than statutory redundancy but saying he's redundant, get advice from ACAS because they may be trying to pull a fast one.

If he has declared a disability he has protection against discriminatory harassment from Day 1 of employment. Again, seek ACAS's advice.

Hi all. Thanks for the the advice. He has been there 5 years in April. He is going to accept the offer of money as he would not feel comfortable going back there to work, but we both feel that the amount is a bit insulting tbh

It is not advisable to accept their first offer, it will always be the worst possible deal.

His employer needs to issue him with a written agreement in draft format for his scrutiny and he needs to be clear that he is not prepared to accept any offer contained in the document until he has run it by the solicitor of his choice.

He can reasonably expect the employer to pay a solicitor's fee of c £350 + VAT to review the deal. At the meeting with the solicitor, they may tell your DH the amount is too low and that they can aim to get more for him. If so, then let the solicitor work that through directly with the employer.

The agreement should written as an ex-gratia payment, so that HMRC will not impose deductions (as it's a non-contractual settlement).

A final warning for what op? Can you clarify? There needs to be a formal reason.

As for the pay, it's generally a week for every year worked. He would also have his notice period, as per his contract.

Has his mental health issues previously impacted his performance at work? Has it ever been discussed as a reason for performance issues? Or has there been no performance issues?

Sorry also when you say reasonable adjustments have been made, who has made the adjustments, him or the employer? Generally it is the employer but for some reason it reads like it's him?

Ok so 2 things.

If his post is being made redundant as he has been there over 2 years they need to follow proper process (the process itself depends on the number of employees they have and that are affected). As your DH has been there 5 years he is entitled a minimum 5 weeks pay.

But it doesn't sound like they want to do that so they are putting a settlement agreement on the table.

There are laws covering these - you have to run it by a solicitor so that they can check the terms are 'legal' and your DH has to sign it in front of the solicitor. They will also be able to advise whether the terms are fair, and your DH can try to negotiate if he doesn't feel they are.

The downside to this is that there is no comeback on either party, so your DH could not then pursue an unfair dismissal claim.

Your DH doesn't have to sign it or agree to it though, a solicitor will be able to advise whether to take the terms or fight them.

I would say though that if the terms are better than redundancy (ie 5 weeks pay plus pay in lieu of notice) then I'd take them otherwise they could just withdraw the offer and go through a redundancy process.

Thanks for all the replies. They gave him a letter stating the terms. They are offering him one months full pay subject to tax and NI, the same amount again not subject to tax and NI and his holiday entitlement subject to tax and NI.

In regards to reasonable adjustments he had previously been covering for another department on top of his own role. Him and his employer had been meeting regularly to check in and discuss him returning and he had been meeting with occupational health and my partner and his work had come up with a return to work plan.

We will definitely be seeking some advice before any thing is agreed as he has a few weeks to decide.

As for the final warning, he questioned why he would be going onto this if he does not take the settlement and they just said it's company policy and stated that they will review and either take him off of it or sacking.

Also to add, during the meeting they told him that they are not a charity, this is obviously really hurtful to my partner, but we also have no proof of them saying this which is annoying.

It just seems strange that they would not tell his manager and let them have discussions about his return to work minutes before doing this

He needs to take legal advice. Assuming he is on one month's notice, he is entitled to be paid for that and his holiday entitlement anyway, so they are only offering him one month's pay. On the information you've posted here that doesn't sound like it is enough.

If he doesn't accept the settlement agreement and they carry out their threat to dismiss him that is likely to be an unfair dismissal and may also be disability discrimination. The compensation he could expect for that is likely to be a lot more than they are offering. I wouldn't expect them to offer as much as your husband could get through tribunal but I would expect them to get closer than they appear to be at the moment.

As the meeting finished someone higher up came in and offered him money to leave and said that if he does not take it he will be placed on a final warning which can mean sacking on the spot.

So they said they would sack him on the spot if he didn't accept, but then in your later post, you've said he has "a few weeks to decide". Are you sure your DH has his facts straight? The way he's reported it to you has a few leaky holes in it tbh. He needs to provide CAB or a solicitor with a reasonably accurate account of the situation, is all I'm saying,

From a moral point of view I'd fight this every step of the way, it's a disgusting way to treat people.

However, having had mental health problems myself (and only he can decide how he would cope) I personally couldn't have taken on such a fight, it would have tipped me over. It's a reasonable amount of money and I'd just take it to get myself out of the situation .

So the person higher up cane in and told him it's either the money or final warning which can lead to a sacking and then gave him a letter which stated relayed all the information including what they are offering him.

I asked him if he wants all the stress of taking it further and he wants to see what CAB and his dr say before he makes any decision. He is due back on Wednesday but he has until the 21st to decide whether to take the offer or not. He is going to phone his manager regarding going back on Wednesday as his manager was unaware of the situation so he is unsure whether he goes back or not

Op has there been previous performance related issues? Has he been off with mental health issues before?

If this letter isn't a proposal for a settlement agreement and they aren't paying for your husband to get legal advice they are being incredibly stupid. He could take their money and leave then sue them for unfair dismissal and possibly also for discrimination. He really needs to see a solicitor who specialises in employment law.