Asking for part time. But applying for Full Time.

[GinAndTings]

I need a little bit of advice as I don't know if I am being very cheeky or using my initiative!

I am applying for jobs, ones that I am qualified/experienced for. They are within the NHS/Council positions.

Most of the jobs that I am suited to are full time, however, I cannot manage these hours around childcare.

I want to work every day 10am to 2:30pm, so I can do the school runs.

Please don't offer childcare options as it's very important to me to be a mum who drops and picks their children up from school.

Is it inappropriate to apply for a full time job - but ask if they would consider my hours?

Thank you!

I think it's fine, most people I know who have got part time jobs have done it this way because it's so rare to see a part time job advertised.

People will argue that it's terrible because you're wasting the company's time but I don't see it that way, for various reasons. The way I put it to my employer was that on reflection I thought I could, and would, be a really valuable, loyal employee working fewer hours, but that I was likely to struggle with full time. They were willing to offer me the job on a temporary basis as a trial, subject to review, with the agreement that if it didn't work out I would increase my hours. It worked for them and it worked for me. They wanted me as an employee, I wanted to work there. They got to employ me for fewer hours, so their salary costs were slashed, and because I was so keen to impress them there wasn't a chance I would give it anything less than my absolute best.

The key to negotiating is pointing out how it could benefit both parties. If they say 'no, it's full time or nothing' then you have to accept what they say. And under no circumstances should anyone be approaching an employer with the attitude of 'I'm entitled to this' because you're not and it will just get people's backs up.

But if you don't ask, you don't get.

Most NHS/council positions can be part-time although how easy this is in practice will vary as attitudes/practices are different in different trusts and of course it depends on the exact nature of the job.

I do think though that the hours you are asking for are probably quite hard to accommodate, compared to someone who says wants to work 9-5 4 days a week, or even someone who wants to do 2 or 3 days (in the latter situation a job share is a possibility for most roles) - but I guess it all depends on the kind of job, are there likely to be a lot of meetings you need to attend (meaning any afternoon meetings would need to move to the mornings, for clinical teams etc. that can be a problem), do you need to 'cover' a desk or phone during office hours etc., would you be a 'lone' person in your role or part of a team etc etc?

I guess what I'm saying is there is no harm whatsoever in asking (in your case if's a 100% need for those exact hours and you can't offer any flexibility whatsoever, I'd phone and ask before applying as you don't want to waste your time if it's a no). You will probably stand a better chance if you can offer some flex, even if very limited, e.g if once a month there was an important meeting 2pm-4pm that you knew about in advance, could your kids be picked up by someone else or go to childcare that one day, but you leave at 2.30 the rest of the time? Could you log on from home and do a few hours work in the evenings once kids are in bed? If so mentioning it may help....

You have nothing to loose by giving it go. Can I ask why only NHS/council?

As an employer in the public sector, you're welcome to ask, and they're welcome to say no. Realistically you aren't going to get those hours because the manager will those the funding not spend on funding for that post so could manage you offering to do 2.5 days, as they can seek to recruit a job share to the other half of the post. If you want to do the hours you've stated, they aren't going to find anyone to work an hour in the morning and a couple of hours each afternoon. They'd then lose the funding for those hours of your post elsewhere within their department.

It's very worthy to want to pick your children up from school but not hugely employable. When you find that you struggle to get a job with these very specific hours (I know one that does them, but she was already in post and got them as a post maternity adjustment, we wouldn't actively recruit to these hours as we're busier later in the day as well) would you prefer to drop them off or collect them from school? Negoitation is two way, not I'm amazing and will only work these hours. I'm sorry you're not going to get the hours you want.

Check if the full-time positions are open to job-sharing

NHS Director here on very similar hours. I'm flexi around the hours of 9am and 2:30. I've been doing these hours for the last five years and will never accept a role if these hours cannot be guaranteed. However I have to say I've been incredibly lucky. Our band 3-5 administrators would not be able to work these hours as they go on a rota to ensure the office is manned 8:30 to 5:30 every day. I also have to have a large degree of flexibility, so any late/early meetings have to be covered if I'm given enough notice for the breakfast/after school club. Due to my grade, I do pick up a lot of work after I get home.

So, the hours do exist but you can't guarantee them. I have moved around jobs over the last five years and when filling out the application, in the "supporting information" I put: I currently work flexibly around the hours of 9am to 2:30pm. Please do not invite me for interview if these hours cannot be supported. I'm in no doubt I'll have been overlooked for positions due to this, but at least then I'm setting the scene and not wasting anyone's time.

@InOtterNews, job share suggests someone else will do the remaining hours around the OP. Can you see anyone being recruited to those hours, presuming we're talking about filling a rota, not just handing them 18 hours a week on their own preferred pattern?

To be fair, KeepThosePlatesSpinning, job share doesn't always have to mean that the hours of a full time week are exactly divided between 2 people so someone does Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays and someone else does Tuesdays and Thursdays, or person A does mornings and person B does afternoons for example (obviously if it's a rota that needs covering it can mean that).

We have job sharers doing project management type jobs where for instance there is Programme A with workstreams 1-10 adding up to a full time project manager role, someone can take workstreams 1-4 and someone else 5-10, when they actually do the work can to a degree be up to them (it probably wouldn't work well for us to have someone doing mornings only as the OP wants, due to meetings etc but it certainly wouldn't be a problem if both job sharers worked mid week and had Fridays off, in some ways it would be better if they have at least one day where they are both in). Or if it's the kind of job which has a caseload of clients, again it's easy enough to assign 60% of clients to one person and 40% to another and the job sharers see their clients at whatever convenient times, again you can actually double up your capacity at busy times this way which can work really well, but of course it depends what your busy times are! So that's why it depends heavily on the type of job OP does as to whether she'll be able to find a job that suits...

Thank you for your replies.

I am applying for NHS/Council roles for employment longevity, security & to work my way up with extra training/progression.

Although I am applying for BAND 2/3 Admin positions.

I would like to keep my new role for as long as I can - ideally seeing me through until my girls leave school. They also offer Flexi time which would be really helpful come the half term holidays.Then I would like to work full time in the same role. (that's the plan anyway!)

Since my twins were 6 months old my parents and DH's parents have really picked up the slack to enable me to get back to work two days a week. My parents drive over 2 hours from their home on Mondays & stay at my home over night so I can get up Tuesday and head to work (30 mile commute) My parents then take my girls to DH when he finishes work ( he also a 30 mile commute) so he can then take them to his parents for that night, so I can then work the full day Wednesday. I have been employed at this position since before I got pregnant with the girls. He then picks them up from his parents on the Wednesday once he finishes work and brings them home.

My parents are unwilling to continue with this arrangement once my girls start school in September.

I am open to being as flexible as possible, I will, when needed for meetings, and busy times I will arrange for an after school club.

Maybe I am being a bit too optimistic about the hours...

I do have an interview this week with my local council and the hours are to be discussed at interview. So I hope they can accommodate me.

Pressed post before I was ready...

I don't want to rely on an after school club every day ideally...but I understand I too need to be flexible and negotiable.

I don't want my parents to continue to come out of their way each week. They are now retired and have helped us a lot with this arrangement.

I would like to have this new role all the way through my girls school years - and then go full time in the same role when they leave school.

I guess there isn't any harm in asking - I just didn't want to be discounted because I cannot do full time, I am still a good employee, with no gaps in employment. I just cant do the extra hours in the day.

You'd be better off aplying for a 3 day a week job then asking for those hours.

Otherwise, you are looking at a job share- so call them up before and ask, but you may not get thos exact hours.

How much flexibility does your dh have in his role?

Hi OP I’m not NHS or Council rather Higher Education. Whenever I advertise a post I am always clear that it is full time and we get plenty wanting similar flexible or part time arrangements. I think it doesn’t hurt to ask but be clear in your application that is what you need (not just want). For me if someone applied for my full time post and asked for arrangement it would an outright no as it’s not what was advertised. Might be different elsewhere.
Also, worth considering that in some organisations once they change a full time role to part time to benefit you they loose out. They are essentially saying they don’t need as much resource and have to give it up permanently, most departments won’t want to give up thier budget/resource to benefit you. They also can’t change it back to full time when you want, as by changing it they said they don’t need as much staffing iyswim
Not sure if that helps

I think you’re looking for the golden goose; and you should widen your search to be in with the most chance - so looking at schools, colleges and universities might give you more of a chance at school hours/term time etc.

As PP, you can always ask but be prepared to be turned down a lot if you’re not willing to be flexible about your hours. I’m guessing you’ve already tried to negotiate something with your current workplace?

Oh yes, and as Pp have said, it’s usually not so easy to turn a part time post into a full time post nowadays.

I work in the NHS. I went for a job that was advertised as FT and when I was at the interview I asked if there was any way I could do PT as I had a 1.5 year old child. Employers said they would consider but I wasn't hopeful. Anyway, they phoned me the next day to offer me a PT role! They liked me and another candidate and split the post between us. I did have to compromise in that I wanted 4 days but they could onl offer me either 3 days PT or FT as it didn't fit in with the other person. Go for it! But be prepared to make some compromise. The hours you want are VERY specific.