New job - less flexible, more money

[missyoumuch]

I'm in final rounds of consideration for essentially a dream job - something I'm very keen to do and was actually planning to do a part-time postgraduate course in the subject to make myself more attractive to employers. They've agreed to a base salary which is 15% more than my current and bonuses are also to be expected on top.

I hate my current job. HATE IT. My boss is the worst micromanager, takes out frustrations on me, and it's demoralising every day I remain in it. However, it is very flexible, I work at home 2 days a week and never have an issue popping out for doctor's appointments, DC issues, etc. as long as I get my work done. I've bitten my tongue as with young DCs this was a good arrangement but I'm rapidly approaching my limit.

The new job is very corporate, 9-5:30. The company offers flexible working but it's dependent on the manager. No one in the team (which is small) currently works from home. I feel like I should negotiate one day from home in advance but I don't know when to raise it, as I'm worried raising it before they make an offer could harm my prospects.

I'm struggling with whether or not the salary increase would compensate for losing one or both WFH days. DCs are young (5 and 3) but we have reliable childcare that wouldn't need to change with the new position, and they'll both be in school soon.

Anyone been in a similar situation? Thanks.

Anyone?

A bit less flexibility is probably worth more money, but particularly lack of micromanagement.

When I started in one team, they stopped feeling obliged to stay late - I had to leave on time, because I had other places to be. Just because they're not very flexible now doesn't mean they have to stay that way - show them how it can work.

Do you need the WFH day? If you have reliable childcare it’s probably not a dealbreaker is it? In which case I would consider waiting until you’re established before asking.

I don’t need the WFH day but I like having it. Get a bit more time with DCs as I don’t have to commute. 15% is a lot of money though as I haven’t had a payrise in a few years.

Just a bit of Mum guilt about going full time back to the office.

How much extra a month does 15% equate to though? Flexibility really does count for a lot.

I agree, flexibility and wfh is worth a lot.

If your base salary is 50k, that’s a before tax rise of 7.5k, after tax that’s more like 4k

If it were just 'pay rise vs flexibility', then that would be a different question, but you have said you HATE working for your present company, so, for me, even if it were the same money and you lost the wfh, it would still be worth it.
You say you have great childcare in place.
I'd start working there, see the lie of the land, and then ask at 'review' once you've made yourself invaluable.

How much extra a month does 15% equate to though? Flexibility really does count for a lot.

Its 15% increase on the base salary but a typical bonus for the position would be 10-20% on top.

I have not had a payrise or bonus in my current position for 4 years. Which I accepted as the cost of the flexibility. But as DCs are getting older we could use the money, and my manager is really just becoming unbearable.

If you hate the current role I would move regardless. Often flexibility will come as you prove yourself in a new role. Though it does depend on management!

I disagree and think that the request for 1 wfh day can be made once they offer you the job.
Always negotiate before you start, that's your best opportunity.

My last role, Once offered, instead of 5 days 9-6pm, I negotiated 4 days 8-4pm.
Best thing I ever did!

My experience is that you might be best placed to take the new job, demonstrate your work ethic and commitment to delivery then at the end of your first year (or maybe sooner depending) request the home working. Some managers have had people use working from home as actually taking a day off so I would go out of my way to alleviate any concerns first then ask.

What's the length of the commute in true terms? Eg allowing for the physical get out of office and house, delays, travel costs, etc.

Though its a substantial increase it also substantially increases the expectations load on you in the terms of covering child illness, appointments, attending children events etc. For me I'd need a lot more than the pay rise to lose the ability to attend celebration assemblies, sports days etc.

@missyoumuch I'm in a similar position to you now. What happened in the end?

I hate my current job, it's going nowhere but looks great on paper - good pay and flexible, although with my manager (who joined 2 years after me) isnt so keen and is a micromanagin self serving sort who will see that I go nowhere

The new job is in a large US international firm. The pay will go up over time much more there. the hiring manager said 'it's not a 9-5 job' (red flag? -Not that I expect it but I dont want the work to overtake life ) and she'd consider WFH at most one day a week (despite the whole covid thing and we were both interviewing via zoom at home and commenting how effective WFH has been). In theory it's my dream job and I'm a perfect fit but culture is the one thing you cant really tell until you work there. What would you do?

Have they actually offered you the job?

If the recruiting manager clearly states at interview that it's a maximum of 1d/week working from home (surprisingly for a large US corporate), then that's fair warning they may not entertain flexible working.

How ridiculous when the whole world has been turned upside down with COVID19 and many employers who had never before allowed their staff to work remotely have been force to during lockdown and as you and the manager discussed, it is very effective (especially when it's output based rather than how many hours you sit bum on seat in the office).

If they offer you the job, you could mention you'd like to submit a flexible working request for consideration after the statutory 16 weeks because you have been supported by your current employer to wfh (2? 3? days per week), and see how that's received.

Quite frankly for that type of international US company, if they aren't forward thinking enough in this post-Covid19 era to consider wfh a staple offering to staff, then they'll be a nightmare to work for over the long term.

Thanks @daisychain01. They havent offered, no.
The hiring manager is based in US and will be my line manager.
I mentioned that WFH is actually handy because I can take early morning Asia calls and late US calls without the commute. I mean some days I work more at home because there are no boundaries.
But i thought exactly what you said, that they aren't forward thinking enough and probably arent really keen to be flexible
She was trying to convey that they were cuddly and family friendly but I didnt quite know what she meant by that.
She also thought that i shouldnt WFH at the beginning (i know what she means, because i thought the same pre covid, but really you can because I had a new member join in europe during the lockdown)
Anyway I thought I killed it by raising this topic of flexibility, but after the interview she gave positive feedback and is keen to bring me in to meet people (in UK).
Generally in my sector it is still very old school.
Yes you can ask and they will grant but aside from corporate functions it isnt common.
In my experience your line manager is most important for setting the tone re flexibility.

I have another large US firm interview lined up. I've only ever worked for European firms.
When you say its surprising do you mean they are usually ok to consider WFH, or not?

At my current employer I wfh whenever I like. Usually a day a week, sometimes 2, sometimes 0
There was no formal process and I only did it after about 8 months in

I have heard from a few people that American firms can be very demanding and not very flexible as regards working conditions. But the fact that you hate your current job would make me think give it a go.

Thanks @Polyxena. That is helpful insight to US culture

Thanks @Viviennemary. In truth part of me prefers the US working culture but I feel guilty about DC.
Maybe I need to think about our childcare arrangements