Employee lying about being sick in order to have a paid day off

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Advice please. It has come to light that an employee has lied about being sick one day, filled in a self certification form in order to be paid as we operate a discretionary sickness scheme and has been paid. I have now been told by a mutual acquaintance that they were in fact on an activity day with them which had been planned for a few weeks. The acquaintance did not realise that they had taken a sick day and nor did I tell them. The employee has no holiday left and has flexitime they still have to repay.

This should be disciplined but at what level?

Check their Facebook, there could be pictures.

Do you have evidence that the individual was definitely at the event or just someone's verbal assertion? You might be on difficult ground if you have one word against another.

Sick leave doesn't mean locking yourself indoors all day. Leisure activities can aid someone's recovery / mental health.

However, that argument is more successful with long term sickness and a GP certificate as opposed to one day and going on a trip on that one day.

It may be one person’s word against the other but why would the other person say that x had been there if he hadn’t? You should put that to him if he denies it.

I think if he’s done it just taking the money back is too soft. However if that’s what you do I think you should make it very clear that if similar happens again it is likely to be viewed as gross misery

Misconduct not misery. Bloody phone

*Sick leave doesn't mean locking yourself indoors all day. Leisure activities can aid someone's recovery / mental health.

However, that argument is more successful with long term sickness and a GP certificate as opposed to one day and going on a trip on that one day.*

Agree

Working in another country it was generally the case that employees had X sick days per year and X vacation days. All paid. Anything taken outside of that wouldn’t be paid.

Genuinely curious, that doesn’t seem to be the case in the UK?

Depending on the type of work it could clearly have a negative impact (front of house, shift work), but in many salaried jobs it wouldn’t make much difference at all.

I guess the point is that I’m the model stated above, it really didn’t matter if the sick day was because employee is vomiting, looking after an ill child, having a “mental health” lie in watching telly, or off to the West End for a matinee. It would all be covered under the allotted Sick time and paid for. Interesting system (and there were allowances for longer term illness, etc).

Anyway, I’m with those who suggest simply speaking to the employee first. Address the issue head on.

I think it does partly depend upon whether they are a valuable member of the team, whether they take much sick, how easy are they to replace as to how you handle it - an unofficial warning and to be docked the days pay by mutual consent/taken off next years allocation would be my suggestion but you need to try to double check it's true

If someone has lied to their employer to get paid time off then that’s pretty serious actually, @purpleframes. It’s not about one day off, it’s about their honesty and trustworthiness.

^Completely agree with this. You would be dismissed where I work for this.

Also this is one of those things where you have to take the same approach to every staff member. It shouldn’t matter if they have otherwise good conduct etc etc, there is always a first dishonest act isn’t there. It’s not fair that if you’re otherwise great you get away with it, but if you’re not so “in favour” then you’d be disciplined.

I watched a programme a couple of years ago when someone did exactly that, working for the NHS and ultimately was dismissed for Fraud. There was a bit to it, but ultimately, taking time off sick when not sick, but to be paid to do something was indeed considered fraud, and therefore a dismissable offence.

I think some posters are very naive. It is because of people like this person that many organisations started to introduced strict sickness policies and the Bradford factor which sadly punish honest people.

If this was my employee, it would definitely be a written warning offense.

Instead of saying it has been 'brought to your attention' that they attended an event, which sounds like the acquaintance was dropping them in it, I would say that 'it has emerged in conversation'...

Wow alot of bad advice on here. Right so the first thing is to decide what you would like to do in the worst case scenario (that they are guilty). Presume this is true- do you want to caution? Do you want to sack? Final written warning? While you technically shouldn't have made up your mind at this stage is worth considering because the investigation might send you down a path you perhaps didn't want to take. Do you want to do nothing at all? Pretend you didn't notice the discrepancy and walk away? Keep in mind this is fraud- I have never heard of this not being gross misconduct, and therefore generally always a sacking offence if no mitigation is offered (irretrievable breakdown of trust etc etc.). Generally lying, stealing and violence at work are the basis of gross misconduct and fraud is both lying and stealing.

Secondly you have to keep in mind the standard for all employment contracts which is reasonableness of behaviour. You have to have a reasonable process that is followed by a reasonable person coming to a reasonable decision. What this means principally is that you have an investigative processes that does not prejudge the outcome and one that gives the suspect of the process every chance to defend themselves before sanctions are taken.

So that means in the first instance you invite them in for a fact finding interview, and or the allegation to them straight up, and ask for their explanation. If they come back with no I never I was sick, and there's nothing but the word of this original person, then you're a little stuck. The evidentiary standard you're held to is balance of probability, so it depends who you believe. You just have to have a reasonable basis for believing one over the other.

If there is nothing else except the word of the other person then I'd be inclined to pretend you didn't notice the discrepancy. I wouldn't be sending an email to all staff for the reasons other pps outlined above. Staff discipline should not be done on the hoof without knowing the repercussions or processes. Otherwise you end up with an unfair dismissal which could cost you a lot.

”Working in another country it was generally the case that employees had X sick days per year and X vacation days. All paid. Anything taken outside of that wouldn’t be paid.

Genuinely curious, that doesn’t seem to be the case in the UK?”

All employers in the UK are not the same. There are plenty who offer a certain amount of paid sick days. Obviously for genuine illness. Also plenty who don’t. There is also the basic statutory minimum sick pay entitlement so that all employees get at least something if they are off sick.

It makes me laugh when people talk about an entitlement to sick pay, like these are just additional days that can tagged onto annual leave. No, they are days that apply if, and only if, the person is, y'know, genuinely sick.

The OPs employer is well advised to deal with the matter in a commensurate way, aligned to their policy, not least of all because they have a business to run and this could become an unwanted and disruptive distraction.

Giving the person effectively a 'yellow card' ie a first warning (either verbal or written, according to policy) should be enough to let the employee know they didnt get away with it and their job is on the line if they try that stunt again.

I agree with your last update. Speak to them - if they admit it, deduct a day’s pay (or give some sort of warning), if they deny it leave it, but at least they’ll know you’re onto that sort of thing.

Every other employee knows this individual was taking the piss and is watching to see what you do.

Claiming sick pay when not sick is fraud.

You have to decide on balance of probabilities- why would the mutual acquaintance make it up? What would their possible motive be? What is more likely?

Just wanted to give an up date. I had a discussion with the employee who absolutely, 100% denied they had been at the event. I cannot take one word against the other. Spoke to MD before I saw them and he was happy to take the informal approach. MD's response was, after I reported back, was he hoped it gave him the fright of his life and that he would not be so stupid as to try it again. MD has the measure of him now.

Did you not ask him what reason the acquaintance would have had to say he was there when he wasn’t?

Too soft. He’s got away with it and he’ll do it again.

And you’ve hugely weakened your position to come in strong on it next time if he does it again by letting it go this time.

Too soft. He’s got away with it and he’ll do it again.

I agree with this.

The employee has now lied twice. Once about being sick and once about not being at the event. They'll do this again but they'll just be more careful next time to make sure that they're not seen.