NHS sickness: one incidence or two?

[Miljea]

If someone works 9-5 Mo, Tues, Weds; but is sick on the Weds; then is still sick on the following Monday, but returns to work on Tuesday, does that count as one incidence of sickness, or two?

Do they need a GP's note of some sort?

It isn't an issue as such, yet, but I just need to be sure.

NHS middle management are so unsupportive, aggressive and combative, I need to have the ducks in a row in case a fuss is made.

We would count it as 1 episode with the expectation you would have let work know if you were Still unwell on the weds and the rest of the week.

It would be 2 if you had said you were well on the weds but then called in sick again the following week.

Thats how it works where i am! I dont always agree with it but i dont write the rules

NHS HR here.

It’s one absence of 6 calendar days. Whatever days you work you’re paid for 7 days a week with the NHS so every day counts whether it’s one you would have worked or not.

Sickness policy measures everything in calendar days, not working days.

No fit note needed until day 8 of absence.

That’s universal no matter where you work.

Yeah it's one incident of 6 days which you can self certify for. It would be 2 incidents if you said you were fit to work in between the Wednesday and Monday and then called in sick again for the Monday if that makes sense.

Thanks!

Boobiliboobiliboo, special thanks.

My Trust's HR, without a work of a lie, to that query, would have replied (4 days later) "What does your line manager think?"...

That’s sometimes the right answer, but this query is a bit more scientific.

Sadly, it has been, over and over again, the only answer!

If, dare I say, me and my Band 8 manager weren't told, last week when both trying to resolve a patient complaint (the 'what's the protocol, here?- questions) that the entire NHS Trust HR team weren't available, due to them attending their senior manager's retirement do. All of them. 3pm.

Seriously. Most staff contact HR because they feel their 'line manager' is guessing.

HR should know.

1 period of absence

last week when both trying to resolve a patient complaint (the 'what's the protocol, here?- questions) that the entire NHS Trust HR team weren't available, due to them attending their senior manager's retirement do. All of them. 3pm.

My team has 6 staff. They work bloody hard covering multiple sites. Yesterday we were all unavailable all afternoon for a team meeting. Much needed due to barely seeing one another for 3-4 weeks. Once a quarter that team meeting is held over breakfast at a local restaurant. Again, much needed time together. If we didn’t I could easily go 6 months without seeing a team member.

I’m not sure why you would expect them to have anything to do with patient protocol though.

Most staff contact HR because they feel their 'line manager' is guessing.
HR should know.

HR is there to enable managers to manage. We will advise staff and managers on policy, but we shouldn’t be the first port of call. Hr is an enabler, not a do it for you function.

Initial responses are often “have you read the policy?”; “have you spoken with your line manager” because otherwise we’d get nothing else done.

Boobi. A sample: Hi, HR, band 8A manager here, what protocol should we follow regarding an incident where a patient mildly assaulted a staff member, and the staff member's response (self protection and 'choice language') has resulted in a complaint?

The HR policy tells me there is a formal and informal route to follow. Both have a review date of 2016. Have they been updated? Who decides whether formal or informal is most appropriate? Why is there no 'flow chart' of accountability? Who gets to escalate or close it?

HR (of a large Trust with 2 large DGHs): 'Sorry, just picked up a ringing phone, no idea, the entire department has shut for a retirement do'....

They took nearly a week to get back with a reply vague enough that the 8A basically cut them out the loop.

It seriously doesn't inspire trust!

I'm sure you do an excellent job, but ours is infamously poor. Our trade unions do most of their work!

As for my enquiry, regarding one or two periods of absence; two of us were sick on the same days, with normal 'not working' days off in between.

I called HR to find out why one of us was allegedly sick 6 days, the other two; why the difference. Response? Ask payroll.... 🤔

A group of HCAs ask to be upbanded from 2 to 3. Currently only if you cannulate. Now and then! They suggested that the aseptic work they do in laying out sterile trolleys and holding the ultrasound probe up a bloke's rectum while a doctor performed a prostate biopsy was pretty equivalent to cannulating. Their HoD's response? To rewrite their job descriptions to take out this responsibility, along with several other higher level duties (won't go down well with the doctors!). 50% of their duties have been rewritten with lots of 'etc's in it.

The HR lady sitting in the meeting, when asked if it was okay to so substantively change someone's duties to a different level of responsibility, without consultation.

Her response? I guess so.

So, sorry, but that's why I may hold a dim view of HR in our Trust.

That is pretty poor.

I think so.

But I do recognise that this is my Trust.

I looked at a career in HR before becoming a HCP, actually. Which is possibly why I am so disappointed in the lacklustre performance of ours.

Hopefully, the deadwood of the retiree (boss) going might reinvigorate the department.

They can do better than that.

If only recognising that 'Have you read the policy?' is valid, but a bit goady to a coal face HPC, who is working 12.5 hour shifts with one actual half hour break, chaos all around, who doesn't have the time to read the pages of 'equality' statements each policy contains. The 24 pages of that policy. Then interpret it.

Yes, they have to. The equality statements, etc, are integral.

But, when you just want to know the essence of the policy, we should be able to get a straight, correct, possibly immediate response as to whether the sickness situations I've describes is one or two incidents, how many days are regarded as being 'off', what documentation may be needed.

Surely a NHS HR should be able to answer that?

The trade union bodies can!

Mine can, and do, but appreciate we aren’t the norm!