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Original poster

Is this an equal pay claim?

35 replies

Joyfulincolour · 21/09/2019 18:46

I joined a large organisation 3 years ago. The job was advertised as a band 7 with a set pay band. Four of us started the job and it now transpires that one person asked for their pay to be matched to their current pay so was given a band 8. Another person requested the same and was started on the middle of band 7. Two of us who started on the bottom of band 7 have just found this out. Around a year ago, two new staff were recruited and were put on the band 8 pay scale. We all do exactly the same job! The two of us on the lower end of band 7 have approached HR and our Manager. Both have more or less said "that's just the way it is here." Can anyone advise whether we have an equal pay claim? The job advert definitely didn't say that pay was negotiable and it wasn't made available to all of us.

OP posts:
readytoretire · 21/09/2019 19:14

Are men and women in different bands?

Onceuponacheesecake · 21/09/2019 19:19

I've never seen a job advertised as "pay negotiable". They negotiated, you didn't. Your loss there OP! I'd do a kick ass job and ask for a pay rise explaining why and your reasons should have absolutely nothing to do with your colleagues pay. Whining that your colleagues get paid more so you deserve more probably won't go down well.

Original poster
Joyfulincolour · 21/09/2019 19:29

No, it's both men and women that are paid more.

OP posts:
flowery · 21/09/2019 19:37

If there’s a man being paid more for the same job for no other reason than he negotiated harder then it absolutely could be an equal pay claim yes. Women shouldn’t have to behave like men in order to be paid equally.

MeltingSugs · 21/09/2019 19:40

This is NHS isn't it? I work in NHS Finance.

Do you and the 8s have the same job description? If so, ask for it to be put through the job evaluation process. Someone in HR will do it based on national profiles on the NHS Employers website.

You don't have a chance with the other 7s higher up the band I am afraid. For what it's worth, if you come from another NHS role they nearly always dump you straight on the bottom. If you come from elsewhere they will sometimes start you on the middle so it's not a lower salaried role than what you did before. They aren't willing to do it for everyone though, and since the new pay deal it will be even harder, because incremental points are based on years of experience in post.

If you are not NHS then this will be useless, but I gathered it was likely to be Smile

lovemenorca · 21/09/2019 19:42

They negotiated OP
You didn’t and now expect it to be handed to you on a plate

No claim.

Original poster
Joyfulincolour · 21/09/2019 20:02

Meltings- thank you for the advice. It's not the NHS but a different large organisation.
Love - we didn't know they had negotiated until recently and we are still all doing the same job.

OP posts:
lovemenorca · 21/09/2019 20:03

Op there is no requirement for anyone to tell you that someone has negotiated a pay increase.

AnchorDownDeepBreath · 21/09/2019 20:07

You don't need to be told that someone negotiated. You just have to negotiate every job; however uncomfortable. Unless all the people being paid more are men, I don't think this will go very far.

flowery · 21/09/2019 20:15

” Unless all the people being paid more are men, I don't think this will go very far.”

That’s not how equal pay works. The woman can pick one male comparator or more than one. The fact that other women are also paid more doesn’t mean it’s justifiable. And “he negotiated” isn’t a material factor defence.

misspiggy19 · 21/09/2019 20:16

I don’t see a claim here. They negotiated, you didn’t.

flowery · 21/09/2019 20:17

”They negotiated OP. You didn’t and now expect it to be handed to you on a plate”

Equal pay absolutely should be handed to women on a plate, yes. People should be paid according to their skills, experience, qualifications, performance or similar. Pay should not be based on who yells loudest.

JaneEyreAgain · 21/09/2019 20:20

Spot on Flowery.... if only your voice of reason was universal.

SinkGirl · 21/09/2019 20:21

Do they have more experience, more qualifications etc?

My last job there were 10 of us doing the same job, each managing a section, and we were all paid differently dependent on experience and qualifications.

ChicCroissant · 21/09/2019 20:22

FE?

I don't think you have a claim, unfortunately, but if it is a large organisation and it has job evaluation, does the pay scale for that role go over 7 and 8? It may do. Most employers will start at the bottom of the scale if possible, you may get more increments but will eventually get stuck at the top of the scale - how can you move to the next grade up?

Lazypuppy · 21/09/2019 20:53

Just becaude you do the same job doesn't mean you get paid the same. They negotiated, you didn't so starting salary is different. Then pay rises/bonuses etc will all happen at different points.

You have to give your employers a reason to give you a pay rise

flowery · 21/09/2019 20:56

” Spot on Flowery.... if only your voice of reason was universal.”

It’s so disappointing that so many (I’m assuming) women seem to genuinely think it’s right, fair and normal for people to be paid based on haggling rather than on actual job-related factors.

It is very well-documented that women and minority ethnic groups are less likely to negotiate and less likely to value themselves highly. Women from minority ethnic backgrounds are particularly vulnerable to this type of arrangement.

People who think it’s a good idea to base pay decisions on how bolshy someone is when negotiating are advocating a system which is demonstrably indirectly discriminatory, and penalises women and minorities every single day.

lovemenorca · 21/09/2019 20:57

@flowery

Did you not read the clarification that both men and women are being paid more

flowery · 21/09/2019 21:50

Yes, and?

lovemenorca · 21/09/2019 22:26

Pay should not be based on who yells loudest.

You assumed they yelled the loudest
Chances are they put forward a case as to why they warranted a higher salary - most experience or were able to demonstrate an improvement they’ve introduced or a series of successful pitches etc

flowery · 21/09/2019 23:55

Now who’s making assumptions? The OP was told they negotiated, not that they had more experience or whatever.

And many people on this thread seem to be assuming either that the OP doesn’t have the experience/whatever else was in the ‘case’ put forward, or that simply negotiating in itself is justification for paying someone more.

Onceuponacheesecake · 21/09/2019 23:58

Stop making this about men v women because it doesn't have a place on this thread. How boring of you.

Pay should be credited on the individual, man or woman. If you can tell your employer why you are worth X amount and they agree, what is the issue.

prh47bridge · 22/09/2019 00:08

Stop making this about men v women because it doesn't have a place on this thread

It clearly does have a place on this thread as it appears the OP may have been the victim of indirect sex discrimination. You may find it boring. I happen to agree with flowery that it is important.

Pay should be credited on the individual, man or woman

That is correct. But it should NOT be based on who negotiated harder. That is indirect sex discrimination.

Onceuponacheesecake · 22/09/2019 00:19

@ prh47bridge

OP said both men AND women are being paid more than her.

And yes negotiation plays a huge part in how much you're paid! Your biggest card is experience and why your should be paid more. That's negotiation and I don't see how that's unfair. If you aren't going to put forward your worth, why would the employer value you more if you don't value yourself more?

Nikhedonia · 22/09/2019 00:26

Would be interested to know the HR/Legal experience of the posters stating that pay shouldn't be based on skills and experience but should instead be based on negotiation skills.