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Original poster

Is employer acting fairly with overtime?

24 replies

Belgianbuns · 16/09/2019 06:40

I am seriously fuming with my DH employer for completing taking the p*s and would love to know if you think they are BU. DH is an HGV driver and has been with same company for over 15 years. His contracts says 40 hours per week. My DH always works over and above and takes any overtime as we really need the money. He has a set round at work each day which usually means he finishes at 2pm ish. After that he can help with overtime. For example the other day his boss asked him if he could work extra for a few hours. Of course he said yes. At the end of the week they have started to add up your finishing times and if it is not 40 hours per week they will knock off any extra hours you have done throughout. For example day 1 worked 8 hours, day 2 worked 10 hours (2 hours overtime) day 3 worked 6 hours as the work ran out and they sent him home even though he wanted to stay. Therefore they cancelled the 2 hours overtime from day before as they said he would not have totalled 40 hours at end of week. I hope that all makes sense. In essence he is contracted to work 40 hours and would like to work an additional 10 hours each week but they keep knocking him.l and others. Is this fair or are they taking the p*s? They do it to everyone not just him

OP posts:

justbeingelle · 16/09/2019 06:43

It seems fair - he's getting paid for what he's worked.

Teachermaths · 16/09/2019 06:46

Does his contract specify when the hours have to be worked, or just 40 per week?

Original poster

Belgianbuns · 16/09/2019 07:08

@justbeingelle my point is why would you bother to work overtime the day before when you are already tired from a 5am start? You do it for the money. And he and the others are saying they are available to work it’s just that they have finished their round for the day quickly. They are a refuse company so bins need emptying which is why the employer begs you to work extra on some days to avoid complaints if that makes sense.

OP posts:

Original poster

Belgianbuns · 16/09/2019 07:10

@Teachermaths pretty sure it just says 40 hours per week. Another thing they do is if you have worked 10 hours overtime for the week they automatically knock off another 2 1/2 hours as they say it is for a 30 minute break (even though you may have had a break they still deduct it)

OP posts:

Mummyto2munchkins · 16/09/2019 07:10

Is he being paid 40 hours even if 40 hours isn't worked?

TheCanterburyWhales · 16/09/2019 07:11

But overtime is over the 40 hours surely?

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 16/09/2019 07:12

If he is contelracted 40 hours, then it's only after he reaches 40 hours will he start to get overtime.

If he is regularly being sent home early, then I think he ought to stop taking the overtime and get 40 hours work paid for a shorter week and enjoy more time off.

However,
He has a set round at work each day which usually means he finishes at 2pm ish. After that he can help with overtime
Doesn't this just mean that his regular tasks are complete partway through his shift so his employer gives him more tasks to fill the time til the end of his shift? So not over time? Unless his day started at 6am of course.

Hederex · 16/09/2019 07:13

It seems fair to me as long as he is not being cheated out of anything over 40h and is having the requisite breaks.

BeanBag7 · 16/09/2019 07:15

So he worked 2 extra hours on (say) Wednesday but at the end of the week had only done 38 hours in total, including the overtime, so was only paid for 38 hours? Or was he paid for 40? But was expecting to be paid for 42. I can see why that's annoying.

They need to stop offering overtime if they don't have enough hours to go around. He should at least be paid for his 40 hours a week even if he only does 38 as it's not his fault.

BeanBag7 · 16/09/2019 07:17

But if he finish at 2 and only does 6 hours a day i don't see why they would pay him for 10 hours. As others said they're just filling up his time rather than giving overtime

Biancadelrioisback · 16/09/2019 07:20

It sounds more like he is just making up the lost hours on different days.
Is he salaried or on hourly pay?
It's not very fair if he is contracted for 40, only works 35 contracted hours but then adds on an extra 5 hours of 'overtime' and expects a 45 hour pay as he hasn't worked 45 hours

AnnieOH1 · 16/09/2019 07:20

What are the changes that have been made recently? Were they bought out or something?

I would strongly urge you to contact at minimum ACAS or preferably an employment solicitor. There's not enough information from your post, and you're getting bombarded with "that's fair" comments; there may be an argument that custom and practice means they can't move the goal posts in this way.

StereophonicallyChallenged · 16/09/2019 07:24

It's fairly standard for o/t to be paid on 40+ hours ime.
Does he receive an enhanced rate for o/t OP?

StereophonicallyChallenged · 16/09/2019 07:26

Also, long shot, but does he still have a copy of his contract?

Bookworm4 · 16/09/2019 07:28

I think the annoyance is he gets asked to work on but they send them home early another day to avoid paying overtime.

Original poster

Belgianbuns · 16/09/2019 07:32

He does have a set round. But basically they have you over a barrel then. They ask you to work extra as they have received a complaint from the council, you work sometimes 4 hours extra but then they knowingly don’t let you finish your 8 hours the next day or so on so that they don’t be have to pay you overtime which is time and a half. Clever really! But it is more the way they do it that annoys me. Think the lesson is to not do it in the first place then.

OP posts:

iklboo · 16/09/2019 07:34

You've said he's still tired from the 5am start but he's an HGV driver. Maybe they think they're looking after health & safety?

Lysistrataknowsherstuff · 16/09/2019 07:34

Does his employer actively send him home early or ask if he wants to go home? When I worked hourly (over a decade ago so may be rules have changed) that was what made the difference as to whether you still got paid: the employer would say work had finished and you could go home if you wanted - if you did you wouldn't get paid for the hours until the end of your shift. If you said no, I want to work my contracted hours, it would irritate them but they'd find you something to do as if they sent you home they'd have to pay you anyway. It was a really subtle difference but I couldn't afford to lose those hours.)

ArnoldBee · 16/09/2019 07:40

So in the Civil Service to get paid overtime you have to have worked a full working week before you get paid overtime rate. So for example Joe is contracted to work 20 hours per week but a full time week is 37 hours. Joe has to work another 17 hours at flat rate before Joe then gets paid for any work at time and a half rate. So I think you've got the nail on the head when you say it's how the employer does it that's the issue.

ginrummy1 · 16/09/2019 08:10

If he finishes early one day does he still get paid for the 40 hr week? If so I don't think he really can complain.
I work part time, in order to get double time overtime I have to work over 37hrs per week

FionaBrusque · 16/09/2019 08:17

He's only doing overtime if it's over his contracted hours. Doing more hours on one day isn't overtime.

Carthage · 16/09/2019 08:30

It sounds like he'd be better off not doing overtime. The way they're doing it seems like it means that they can get round his working contract, which is probably eight hours per day. By offering him 'overtime' he works longer but they don't ever actually pay him for it as they dock off the next day's hours. They're effectively turning it into a zero hours contract situation, where he works the number of hours they want to suit their flexibility, not your husband's. Is there any way you could get hold of his contract to see what that says? Also, could you ring ACAS to find out the legal position?

Loveislandaddict · 16/09/2019 08:42

I can understand what you saying.

Basically, his daily round usually takes eight hours, but occasionally takes less. You feel he should be paid for these eight hours, whether he works it or not, because that his daily work schedule.

Sometimes he does extra. Ie. Overtime. You feel this should be paid on top of his standard eight hour day, not in lieu of hours not worked due to the company failing to provide him with work in the allocated time.

What happens if he doesn’t do the overtime? Will he still get paid the 40 hours even if he doesn’t work the full number of hours. If so, don’t do the overtime!

I agree with the above poster who sAys they’ve turned it into a zero hour contract.

What does his contract say?

SinkGirl · 16/09/2019 09:39

So from what I understand, his working hours are for example 6am - 2pm, Monday - Friday.

Some days when they’re busy they ask him to work until say 5pm because that’s when they need the work doing, and then they deliberately send him home at 11am the next day so they don’t have to pay him any more.

Are his daily hours specified in his contract or is it just 40 hours a week? If it’s the latter I’m not sure there’s much he can do but worth checking with ACAS.

If he doesn’t do any overtime so they still send him home early when the work runs out? Does he then get paid less than his contracted hours each week?

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