Flexible working request refused advice

[User1012]

I am waiting on a call back from my union but have been waiting since Wednesday so looking for advice on what my next step should be.

I work for a large company many different departments and my rota consist of early and late shifts, I returned to work a few weeks ago from mat leave, 2 month before returning I had an informal chat with my manager regarding a change of shift pattern, she advised me to do a flexible working request and they would have a look. I received a call a few weeks later asking me to go in to discuss it, they were mostly able to accommodate what I was asking: same days just certain ones I could only do an early or another day needed to be a late. The couple that they couldn't accommodate I have managed to make other arrangements for so no major issue.

Now I am back and there are notices in the staff room stating there are no set shift patterns and all staff are expected to check the rota which will be put out with 4 weeks notice, it occurred to me that although my shifts had been put on the master rota for the year I had no written notice regarding the flexible working so I email my boss to ask for confirmation that I am not affected by the 4 weeks notice.
I then received a response stating "HR can't approve the request as they couldn't approve it for all staff if they requested the same" she thought another staff member had told me and although they will do their best to give me the shifts I need I am subject to the 4 week rule.

I have read their policy on flexible working and I don't feel they have followed it at all, no where does it state hr can overrule, it only mentions manager when talking about decision making.
Policy states that if a request can't be met I should be offered a meeting with manager to discuss and try to agree a compromise, I should then recieve a letter from manager stating reasons for initial request being declined and how they justify this under the specific business reasons as well as discussion of compromises offered/agreed/declined and why and details of the appeals process.

None of that has happened and I don't think the one line given as a reason counts as a business reason. Until I emailed asking for confirmation I had no idea it had now been refused and wouldn't have known until the rota showed shifts I couldn't do which could have been weeks and then too late to question it.

On top of that as the email stated HR had refused it after it had been agreed I contacted them to discuss it and they have no record.
So what should I do, HR advised I go back to my manager which I will but not sure what to say. Any advice??

It's diffi uot. It sounds like all they fail to do is right to you with confirmation that the discussion had taken place but ultimately, they could claim that what was agreed as a compromise was that they would endaveour to give you the shifts you needed but couldn't guarantee them.

They have given you a reason that is quite valid from a business perspective. Might be worth seeking legal advice as t owhether their lack of putting things in writing right after the meeting constitutes a failure that justify them honouring what was your understanding of the outcome of the meeting.

@swingofthings thanks for your response, my issue is that at the 1st meeting it was an informal chat before any request was made, the second meeting was really just to go over the rota as I was told over the phone my request had been granted.

I understand they might veiw that as a compromise but upon refusal of my initial request I would have asked to reduce my hours as a compromise as that is what was offered to another member of staff who requested flexible working in the past, though the reason for her initial request being refused was due to another reason. The compromise they have given is just not possible for me at the moment a drop in hours may be but would require further discussion as to how that would work.

I am also questioning why, if hr overruled the initial approval, they have no record of any request on the system.
I want to put in writing my questions but not sure how to go about this.

”I have read their policy on flexible working and I don't feel they have followed it at all“

Did you follow it though? From your OP it sounded like a series of informal chats with your manager. Did you actually put in a formal request?

@flowery yes after my initial chat with my manager I filled in the flexible working request form she gave me, I also accompanied this with a letter asking her to call me if there were any issues. I then received a phone call saying it was all approved except a couple of shifts so I requested to come in and look over the rota as it was easier to see what shifts they were talking about and also to copy them to my diary and double check it was what was needed.
According to the policy all I really need to do is fill in the form and attend any meetings they set in relation to my request.
I have been back a few weeks now working to the rota I requested and only found out by chance that they had changed there mind.

The reason HR have given you about not working flexibly is not an acceptable reason. Everyone else hasn’t asked and have no reasons to ask. They have to deal with facts, not guessing what others might or might not want. The HR response effectively says no flexible work patterns at all. Ever. This is not administering a policy.

They do, however, have to keep an eye on what work needs to be done and when. A manager is best placed to do this.

You have started back at work based on your agreement with your manager. That is, effectively a contract. You have worked the pattern of hours and they haven’t changed it or said it must stop. Say this to your manager. Look at the details of the policy and ensure you know what it means for you. Any change to your working pattern now has to be agreed with you. For the moment, work the hours agreed.

In that case I would respond in writing, confirming that you put in a formal request on x date, please see attached a copy, you followed the flexible working procedure, your request was agreed with amendments by your manager on x date. As they are aware, flexible working requests result in a permanent change to terms and conditions. As your request was agreed, your terms and conditions were amended to the new agreed ones on x date, and accordingly you have been working those hours since then, and will continue to do so as these are now your permanent terms and conditions of employment.

They are trying to pull the wool over your eyes and obfuscating, by introducing the complication that "everyone else might ask, and we wouldn't be able to accommodate all staff requests". That isn't the point, and as already stated, flexible working is an agreement between employer and you, their employee, it should not then trigger a blanket ban of all staff on FW, just because they fear they will lose control. That's unrealistic, it fails to comply with the spirit of the statutory right. I've had experience of this shenanigans in the past, and when I made this point, they backed off and granted my request.

I received a call a few weeks later asking me to go in to discuss it, they were mostly able to accommodate what I was asking: same days just certain ones I could only do an early or another day needed to be a late. The couple that they couldn't accommodate I have managed to make other arrangements for so no major issue.

If you haven't already, you need to formalise exactly what you discussed/agreed here, as it is very clear they are now back-pedalling on the agreement that you were of the understanding that they were fine with. Also, if you need those stipulated hours for childcare reasons, it is worth reminding them this, because the trend is very much towards family-friendly, equality etc to enable working mothers to benefit from the same opportunities as men in the workplace, for which they are putting barriers in the way by clamping down on the very mechanisms the UK Government has put in place for that purpose.

@flowery @BubblesBuddy @daisychain01
Thank you for your responses. Over the weekend I have emailed my manager again basically saying, in a professional way, that I am not happy that hr appear to be able to refuse my request after she had approved it and changed the rota as I was under the impression it was managers discretion. I have outlined their policy and how I feel they have failed to follow it and the difficulties this has now caused me with regard to childcare. I have asked for details of the hr member who was dealing with my request.

I have actually spoken to hr again and been told that they would not overrule a managers decision on flexible working as it is at managers discretion and that the reason given does not sound right. They have sent me their grievance procedure and have confirmed in writing that they have no record of any request for me.

I'm not sure what my manager will do now as I am 99% sure she is the one that has not followed procedure and has tried to get out of the agreement made by blaming hr thinking that would be the end of it.

If I don't get a satisfactory response from her I am thinking of emailing again to state that upon on the advice of acas, which I have taken, a verbal agreement and in this case a change to master rota can be taken as an agreed change to my working shifts.
Then go on to say what @flowery and @BubblesBuddy has suggested regarding the hours previously agreed and continuing to work them and the last part of @daisychain01 has said about family friendly, as they are apparently a family friendly company, equality act specifically mentioning indirect sex discrimination though I will need to do a bit more research on that but think I have a rough idea of how that ties into my dispute. As well as pointing out that the reason given is not an acceptable reason.

The grievance procedure states that informal discussion with manager is first step do you think I should specifically mention that I am sending this email in line with that policy? And any other advice on anything else I should include?

as I am 99% sure she is the one that has not followed procedure and has tried to get out of the agreement made by blaming hr thinking that would be the end of it.

Yup passing the buck to HR (sounds familiar!). Meanwhile HR is picking up that you're ramping up the action, and quite rightly their position is that they will defer to the decision of your manager. That's hopeful, your manager has already agreed your proposal with those tweaks, so the reality is that you just need to (re)confirm the facts, for your HR file.

imho, I dont believe it is necessary to lodge a grievance. Why not keep things positive and collaborative by formalising in writing to your manager "the verbal discussion and agreement you jointly made on xyz date" and avoiding the word 'Grievance' (which can become a loaded term). A short succinct letter to confirm what is already understood, significantly reduces the complexity and timescales to get this squared away.

In your letter you could refer to "information and guidance provided by HR on xyz date which clarifies that the decision for this remains with you, as my Line Manager", so it puts the ball squarely in her court.

"I have actually spoken to hr again and been told that they would not overrule a managers decision on flexible working as it is at managers discretion and that the reason given does not sound right. They have sent me their grievance procedure and have confirmed in writing that they have no record of any request for me.

I'm not sure what my manager will do now as I am 99% sure she is the one that has not followed procedure and has tried to get out of the agreement made by blaming hr thinking that would be the end of it."

I don't think there's any need for a grievance. I would go back to your manager saying that you have checked with HR and there was obviously some confusion as they have confirmed they would not overrule the manager's decision so have no problem with your new terms and conditions as agreed through your flexible working request. Say HR did not have a record of your request on file so you have forwarded it to them, along with details of [manager's] approval, and the fact that the new terms and conditions started x weeks ago.

Your manager has said you can't do it because of HR, implying she had no problem with it, but HR have said they also have no problem. Take your manager at her word, and announce cheerfully that it is all sorted, so you will be continuing on your new permanent terms and conditions as agreed.

""information and guidance provided by HR on xyz date which clarifies that the decision for this remains with you, as my Line Manager", so it puts the ball squarely in her court."

I wouldn't actually do this, because I think that risks implying that you think there is still an open decision to be made. I think you should definitely hold the line that the issue was about HR wanting to revoke an agreement which was already finalised some weeks ago, and that they have confirmed they can't and would not.

I wouldn't do anything to imply your manager now has a decision to make - she made it a few weeks ago, so it stands.

Thanks everyone for your advice. I am hoping that she just comes back to me saying she has spoken with hr and actually it has been approved. She can't really take advice on this without having to tell hr what she has done which will then cause trouble for her so I don't see that she has any other option than to confirm acceptance and claim its a misunderstanding.
If she still tries to say its refused by hr I will just email along the lines of suggestion from @flowery and see where it goes.