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Original poster

Annual leave allowance disagreement

89 replies

Dinodinosaur · 12/08/2019 19:19

I work part time and up until now this has been full days. I received a pro rata allowance for annual leave and bank holidays and bank holidays needed to be booked from this allowance.

I am now moving to a mix of full and half days, with the number of hours worked overall per week remaining the same.

My employer has said I now get the same number of days off as a full time employee, but if the day I have off falls on one of my half days it will count as a full day off as they base annual leave on days not hours.

I will need to take time off more often on the half days to cover child care in school holidays. Therefore, I will lose out on holiday in comparison to now, even though my number of hours won't change.

Is this something they are able to do? I am going to challenge, I would just like advice on where I stand first if anyone has it. Thank you.

OP posts:
RedTreehouse · 12/08/2019 21:52

Macavity and Floopily - I don't understand your logic. It's like selling six-packs of cans of coke where some are only half full, but you can't complain if you end up with a half full one because you paid for the six pack, not the individual can, and that's just how it worked out.

isabellerossignol · 12/08/2019 21:57

I understand a day being a day if every day of your working week is the same. I used to work somewhere that everyone got 20 days leave. I was the only part time staff member and I worked four hours a day instead of eight. At first people thought that it was unfair that I still got 20 days leave, but it was fine because a day for me was four hours. But I can't get my head round how that would work if one day is four hours but another might be eight?

YobaOljazUwaque · 12/08/2019 22:02

Are full time employees not allowed to take half-days of annual leave?

Refusing to calculate your leave in hours rather than days is treating you less favourably than a full time employee as you will have less time off per hour of time worked than a full time employee gets. That is illegal.

Cohle · 12/08/2019 22:06

Your employer absolutely needs a system that can cope with calculating leave in hours, or at least half days.

Expecting you to be potentially short changed because of their half arsed HR system isn't really on.

EvianBaby · 12/08/2019 22:07

I understand, it would be best practice (legal!) to allow you to take your a/l in hours. Until I loved to p/t no one in our dept had ever taken their leave in hours, and they were VERY wary (still are sometimes!). But it’s the only fair way to calculate.
So, even if you’re given your leave in ‘days’, change it to hours yourself (I can help you with that, but you probably know how to do it) and then take out your BH allocation (& any others that fall on your working days) - remember this will change each year, depending on when certain BH etc fall (especially over Xmas) and you’ll be left with the no of hours leave you have. So, if you want a day off you would minus 7 hours (or whatever is your usual working day length) and then 3.5 (for example) for a day where you’re contracted to work half a day.
It’s simple once you get it set up... good luck 🙂

leghairdontcare · 12/08/2019 22:21

They should calculate it it in hours for ease but this could benefit you or not depending on which days you want to take off.

I would calculate the leave in hours then at the end of the year see if you've taken more or less than your entitlement. If less, tell them they owe you. If more, no harm done and you've just followed their system as requested.

bakewelltarty · 12/08/2019 22:22

Although most employers base leave entitlement on hours worked now it is not unusual for some to still work it out on days per week worked.

Your employer is not wrong. They are giving you a full time leave entitlement for working part time hours. Therefore when you take any day off you are taking i day out of your leave entitlement. A day for you can be 7.5 or 3.5 hours. As you were given more entitlement to begin with it does not adversely affect you or your full time colleagues by taking one of your half days off as one annual leave day.

You need to stop thinking in hours and start thinking in number of days worked regardless of hours worked each day.

EarringsandLipstick · 12/08/2019 22:25

RedTreehouse

😂
It's like selling six-packs of cans of coke where some are only half full, but you can't complain if you end up with a half full one because you paid for the six pack, not the individual can, and that's just how it worked out

It's actually the exact opposite!

It's like someone wanted 3 full cans of coke & 3 half cans.

They are given 6 full cans at no extra cost.

They can drink their 3 cans, and half of the other 3, if they want. It makes no difference.

OP's not being short-changed here. (Tho I can see how it's confusing)

VeThings · 12/08/2019 22:32

Having thought about this... the OP is shortchanged if she takes most of her leave on the half days

Easiest way to resolve is to have pro-rata leave set out in hours, with an agreement that leave can be taken either in 3.5 (or whatever) hours block for a half day or a longer block for a full day.

Yubaba · 12/08/2019 22:33

This is how my employer does it too, I work half days 2 days and full days 2 days. I can only book a full day off, no half days holidays at all. And I can only book full weeks off except in exceptional circumstances.
I work for a huge multinational and that’s how all our staff holidays are done.

bakewelltarty · 12/08/2019 22:37

No, she really is not being 'short changed'. She was given more annual leave than she was technically entitled to, to cover the days she works part time but takes 1 day annual leave for.

She is getting a full time annual leave entitlement but she works part time hours. Therefore taking 1 day out of her annual leave entitlement, whichever day she takes, is fair.

Justajot · 12/08/2019 22:40

My work is like this. One option is to informally agree with your manager to track your time in hours. I had to do this with one boss as he was convinced that I was getting some sort of advantage. He was the type to make comments as I "left early every day". The fact that I was paid pro rata didn't seem to sink in for him.

EarringsandLipstick · 12/08/2019 22:44

the OP is shortchanged if she takes most of her leave on the half days

No. She's not.

She gets the same annual leave as a f/t employee even though she's p/t. That's why she's not losing out taking a full day on her shorter day.

isabellerossignol · 12/08/2019 22:48

No, she really is not being 'short changed'. She was given more annual leave than she was technically entitled to, to cover the days she works part time but takes 1 day annual leave for.

I have finally got my head round it! Thank you.

BrokenWing · 12/08/2019 22:49

Most people in my office work compressed hours, long days mon-thu and a 1/2 day on Friday.

If I take a Friday off it is a full day annual leave, a friend has the same setup in her work.

Lots of people take mon-thu off and WFH on a Friday, so they get more time off for their annual leave.

thefelineofthespecies · 12/08/2019 22:49

My understanding is that OP meant she has the same allowance as FT staff before pro rata.

So she still has 80% of AL allowance and BHs. However, that if her AL falls on one of her half days, she's having a full day deducted.

So for eg: after pro rata she has 16 days but if she books off a Thursday which would be a half day, she's still having a full day of AL deducted.

It would only be fair to deduct the full day if the AL allowance were no longer calculated pro-rata.

Have I understood OP?

bakewelltarty · 12/08/2019 22:53

But they really don't get more time off for their annual leave.

They work the same amount of hours per week as someone working more conventional 9-5 hours. So no matter what day of the week they take off it amounts to the same.

Nat6999 · 12/08/2019 22:53

I used to work 19 hours over 3 days, Monday was 7 hours, Tuesday & Wednesday were 6 hours. My leave entitlement was always calculated in hours, I had 3 separate entitlements, annual leave, bank holidays & parental leave, all calculated in hours & I chose which one to allocate to time off as I worked term time only, I could either use as full, half days or use hours to make my time up if I left early.

Justajot · 12/08/2019 22:54

Yes, she is short changed if she takes her leave on particular days.

For example:

If she works 26 hours per week - split into 2x7 hour days, 3x4 hour days.

She gets 5.6 weeks holiday in days. 5.6x5=28.

If she takes this leave on her 4 hour days only she gets 28x4=112 hours holiday.

If she takes this leave on 7 hour days only she gets 7x28=196 hours holiday.

If her holiday was calculated in hours she'd get 5.6x26=145.6 hours holiday.

So depending on the pattern of her taking her holiday on short or long days, she is disadvantaged or advantaged.

bakewelltarty · 12/08/2019 22:54

I'm sure the op is getting a full time leave entitlement

bakewelltarty · 12/08/2019 23:01

Just a jot

Stop thinking about the hours worked a day as her leave is not worked out on hours but number of days worked. In your example her annual leave entitlement is 28 days. This is more than a part time employee would usually be entitled to.

So when she takes a day off, whatever day, she takes 1 day out of her entitlement. The full time entitlement takes account of the half days that she works but takes a full days leave for.

VeThings · 13/08/2019 07:15

Justajot is right.

The Op is shortchanged if her annual leave happens to fall on her half days. She will end up working more long days, therefore more hours at work.

Taking days off (rather than hours) does work out completely equal IF the OP worked the same number of hours each day.

Just has demonstrated exactly why she’s shortchanged if she takes most of her leave on the shorter days.

ShhhBeQuiet · 13/08/2019 07:26

This thread is funny. 😅

ShhhBeQuiet · 13/08/2019 07:39

Really sorry if this has already been said but I can see why employers would do this. It's possibly more disruptive for the employer for the OP to take two half days rather than one full day off.

I used to work on a flexi time basis (Local council) . If you wanted you could really take the piss with only booking off core hours and not full days. I think core hours were 10-12 and 2:30-4. So only 3:30 hours a day. Obviously you had to work your hours but you could practically double the number of days you could take off on leave. A lot of staff members took advantage especially those getting double time hours in lieu for night or weekend work.

stucknoue · 13/08/2019 07:58

It should be pro rata by hours. I get a set number of hours leave per year

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