Advice please! Repeated sick leave because pregnant

[PregnantAndPoorly]

Hello,

I’m hoping someone with a legal/HR background can help with some advice (I’ve name changed not to out myself).

I have been with my company for about 5 years. I like the job and get on well with my team and manager. The “problem” is that I am 3 months pregnant (yay!) and am having a difficult pregnancy. I have had about 30 days sick leave so far. My manager knew from very early on that my sickness was pregnancy related (I didn’t try to cover this up).

Yesterday she told me the company won’t give me any more paid sick leave (its all been paid until now). There’s no problem with me being off sick but it will be unpaid from now on. I was understandably very upset (and pregnancy hormones!) and left crying.

I check and my contract says I get paid for the first 7 days of any absence. I read this as meaning that I can have 7 days sick, come back in for a day or two, and then go off sick again for another 7 days. I think this should all be paid.

Can anyone advice me on this?

It’s really stressing me out (which isn’t making me feel any less poorly!)

Thank you

Pregnancy related sick leave

Pregnancy related sick leave must be recorded separately and cannot be used against you (I was off for 8 weeks in both pg), but it looks like you are entitled to the same sick pay as other employees, although no guidance on whether this resets repeatedly after a returning for a single day.

You've had 30 days off already? What is the matter beyond normal pregnancy?

You've been very lucky so far with being paid for this. Going in for a day to have 7 days off is crap behaviour.

Yes it would be taking the piss

Whilst pregnancy related absence is not treated in the same way as normal sickness absence, it does not stop the employer from disciplining an employee for abuse of an employee benefit. On the limited information given, this is an abuse of the benefit.

They can't discipline or fire you for pregnancy related sickness, but they can for abusing your contract. If you are able to get into work every 8 days, and actually plan ahead to do that, whilst maintaining that you're too sick to work then it's really quite obvious that you actually can work, you're simply choosing not too. You're choosing to stay home because you're getting full pay and you're choosing to come in one day in every 8 to ensure you keep your full pay. If you were genuinely too ill to work, you wouldn't be able to come in for that day. So they wouldn't be disciplining you for pregnancy related illness; they would be disciplining you faking it and abusing your contract.
Almost all contracts contain stipulations around the number of times they will pay sick leave over the course of a year etc so you can't piss around like this.

If you're 3 months pregnant and work 5 days a week, and you've had 30 days off sick, that's 50% absence. That's absolutely huge. If you have a severe pregnancy related illness you really should be signed off by your GP for the pregnancy, or until you have recovered. If you have t been signed off, YABVU

As PP says watch out for your qualifying week. If your employer offers enhanced mat leave, tgey may also base tgis on your earnings during the qualifying week. If you're on SSP that week, it could impact on how much you get over how ma y weeks the enhanced part is. Someone who worked for me once found this out to their cost...

I had a terrible early pregnancy and I was signed off work from 4 -14 weeks, I'm absolutely all for not being penalised or discriminated against because of pregnancy but what you are suggesting is so totally unreasonable I'm really hoping it's a joke.
If you are genuinely unable to work then get signed off and accept whatever pay you get, be it full pay or ssp. If you're able to work then, as previously advised, you really should as your actual earnings are what your maternity pay is calculated on

30 work days? So six weeks? And you are 12 weeks pregnant?

If you are too ill to work then you are too ill to go in for a fake day in to restart sickness.

Are you physically going in as much as you can? Or have you been too ill to work for every single one of those 30 days?

Pregnancy related sickness is treated differently to normal sickness and doesn’t count against the normal sickness policy.
You need to get legal advice because I’m pretty sure what your work is doing is illegal.

There's usually a clause that says that if your signed off again within X days, it'll be treated as one period. Does your contract have that?

Considering you don’t get a bfp until you’re 4 weeks pregnant and you’re only 3 months... 8 weeks of 5 days a week means there’s been a potential of 40 days you could have worked. You’ve been off for 30 of those. You’ve got a 75% absence rate

And you’re honest that you’re returning every seven days so you can get more sick pay.

You are absolutely taking the piss. You’re lucky they haven’t fired you

Pregnancy sickness is only not counted against you for performance in the role.

You’re 3 months pregnant, so you found out you were pregnant 8 weeks ago, that’s 40 working days of which you’ve been absent for 30.

You can self certify for the first 5 days, then you need a sick note. Sounds like you are coming back in then self certifying again.

Your company policy stated you will be paid for the first seven days of any absence, as you seem to be coming back in to work then declaring you’re actually not well enough and going off again, this can be classed as a single absence with the same condition, thus the policy applies.

Have you seen the gp or midwife about your ‘pregnancy difficulties’ given the amount of time off you have needed isn’t normal?

They could also ask you to see company occupational health to declare if you are actually fit to work, if they said no and your gp agree’s, you could find yourself signed off sick on ssp anyway whether you like it or not.

If you have a more genuine reason for this amount of absence - a diagnosis other than being pregnant - then the company will be more lenient in applying the sickness policy.

Pregnancy isn’t a get out clause for attempting to abuse company policy and this in itself can be managed as misconduct. What you said to your boss is exactly that. If there is something wrong in your pregnancy or you would benefit from adjustments to working hours to cope with your symptoms, you should first discuss with your GP, then with your boss, and get the appropriate fit to work notes.

@gamerwidow

No it doesn't. You get the same sick pay as anyone else and can claim SSP until 4 weeks before due date and then maternity pay after that. If the policy at work is 7 days paid and then SSP then that's what she gets.

Trying to play the system by saying you're too sick to work for 7 days, then miraculously being fine to work on day 8, then too sick too work for 7 days, then miraculously better again for day 8... that's misconduct.

TheInvestigator
Yes you are right I looked up the relevant maternity law and although you can’t be disciplined for maternity sickness you only get the same sick pay entitlement as everyone else.
Meant to post an immediate correction but my phone died!

and am having a difficult pregnancy. I have had about 30 days sick leave so far

Are you able to talk more about what difficulties you have had/pregnancy related illness? Maybe posters can help give suggestions on getting through it enough to be able to work.

You are massively taking the piss! And 30days sick is ridiculous in 3 months

I was signed of work for 5 weeks with hyperemesis gravidarum , I was so ill I was In hospital bound for 4 weeks. I had sick notes and let my employers have communications with my GP as they didn't know much about it ( hand never had a sick day my whole 11 years with the company ) luckily my employees payed me for 28 days and after that I didn't .. I think they was more then reasonable to stop my pay .

Have you been signed off from a GP?

It may be that the OP didn't realise the implication of what she is proposing. I'm sure we've all had days when we have thought "I really don't feel well enough for work, but I've got to go in because x, y, z."

I suffer from chronic migraine and my current migraine has been bubbling away for just over a week. I struggled in last Thursday, then on Tuesday I did all but 30 mins of my working day (I work 2 days per week), which I will make up when I'm better. Today I woke up with my head still throbbing and the thought of work was awful. But I decided it was better to go in and see how I went.

The OP may be feeling quite unwell and thinks that if she rests for 7 days, she can manage 1 day in work. However, it isn't a good way of doing things.

It would be better to seek modifications that make work manageable, or get signed off until she's totally well.

”I check and my contract says I get paid for the first 7 days of any absence. I read this as meaning that I can have 7 days sick, come back in for a day or two, and then go off sick again for another 7 days. I think this should all be paid.”

It would be unusual for an enhanced sick pay scheme to allow this. If you post the exact wording of the clause and any policy around sick pay, I’m happy to advise whether your employer has indeed left this loophole but I would be surprised. I would expect this all to be counted as the same absence for sick pay purposes, just as it would be for SSP- ‘linked’ absences.

No what they have advised you is correct I’m afraid.

In terms of legal entitlement all you would be eligible would be SSP. Everything else would be stated in your contract/policies and procedures.

Companies tend to have thresholds for sickness ie 3 periods of absence for 6 months/ 5 for 12. A period is classed as time off return - by returning you are ending the period and starting a new one.

Most employers look at on going conditions and make allowances ie will roll close absences into one period and disregard the return to be reasonable, however the high number of days remain apparent.

They should however look at meeting with you to discuss advice from your midwife/doctor and how some possible adjustments could be made. Ie if the main problem is sickness, does it occur in the morning? Could you arrange to try to start later to try and recover before starting. If the weeks are too long could you top up part time using your annual leave?

It sound like they are doing their duty of care (for you, the company and the remaining team). It’s your responsibility to do all you can to get yourself back to work and where reasonable for them to make changes that support you in doing so.

Sickness periods with such short gaps would be linked for pay/SSP purposes, especially where the incapacity is the same.

From what you say, it come across as if you are deliberately doing seven off, two off. This is never looked on kindly.

Whilst I sympathise (I had a similar in my pregnancy and ended up signed off for th last three months) I'm amazed they have paid you full pay so far.

Another one wondering how you feel miraculously able to work on the magic 8/9th day but not 1-7 or after?
You are taking the piss. If you need to stay off, get a sick note.

For Christ sake. It's people like you who give women everywhere a bad news
If you did this in my company. Not being paid would be the least of your worries .

Good grief.

If you actually suggested the 7 off/1 on to your manager then I wouldn't be surprised if they have started disciplinary proceedings. You've basically told them that you aren't ill .