Wise MumsNetters advice needed

[finallydoingit]

Please can anyone offer me some advice?

I have been in my job for a very long time. I have been unhappy within my role and company for the past few years but have stuck with it as the hours/pay suited my work/life balance requirements.

Amazingly, I have been headhunted and offered a new role. This new role sounds perfect and is everything I would be looking for.

But.....

I am due to have a major operation in the next few weeks. My new employers know about my situation and have agreed to defer my starting the new role until I am fully recuperated (the end of Summer).

My present company know that I am going off for this major operation.

My dilemma is knowing the right time to hand in my notice.

I am only on a months' notice, so theoretically, I do not need to hand my notice in before I go off for my surgery. This means that I would not return from sick leave as my sick-note would run out just before I started my new job.

This situation does not sit right with me. I feel obligated to let my existing employer know, before I go off, that I will not be returning. But I want to be paid for the time off, as per my contract of employment. (I know, have my cake and eat it).

WWYD??

Why would you think you wouldn't be paid for the time off, if your contract says you will be? Is sick pay withheld if the employee is serving notice?

Honestly if the shoe was on the other foot, they wouldn’t think twice about letting you go.

I don’t know the legalities of not paying you as theoretically they only need a months notice.

Morally it’s down to you really, I would wait until a month beforehand just make sure when doing hand overs etc before sick you treat it like you are leaving. I’m having a crap time with my employer at the moment so this maybe clouding my judgement

Give them a month's notice like you would if not on sick leave. Otherwise they may take you telling them of your new role as notice and you won't be paid on sick leave after the month expires.

”Otherwise they may take you telling them of your new role as notice and you won't be paid on sick leave after the month expires.”

Doesn’t work like that. They’d have to dismiss her which they can’t do. As long as she is either clear what her termination date is or leaves it vague, giving them a heads up but not written confirmation, they can’t ‘take’ anything as being notice to leave sooner.

Thanks for all your replies.

As per emmaluggs, I also have something that has clouded my judgement and left a nasty taste in my mouth. This may be outing, but I have been made aware that the HR Director told the remaining Board of Directors that I "couldn't be trusted to make a rational or correct decision as I have health issues". You can imagine my reaction and feeling to this. It is this that has been the catalyst for me deciding to leave.

Although I am in a fairly senior role, I have never signed a contract stating anything other than a month's notice, so this is all I legally need to give.

My handover, before I leave to go off sick, will be as thorough as I can possibly make it as they know that I will want to mitigate and limit the "mess" on my return.

My DH says to leave handing in my notice until the last minute, for both peace of mind in case I have complications after my op and for money issues as my contract states full sick pay for the period of my absence.

I think leaving it until the last minute is the right way to go.

Flowery I'm talking the real world here rather than the letter of the law. If OP tells her employer she's got another job it would be very easy for her manger or HR to follow up with an email saying something like 'further to our conversation on X, thank you for advising us that you have secured alternative employment; taking X as your date of notice, your employment with us will end on X...' and yes, OP could then dispute that she's actually given notice but it all gets a bit messy, easier to simply give a month's notice as usual regardless of sick leave.

”If OP tells her employer she's got another job it would be very easy for her manger or HR to follow up with an email saying something like 'further to our conversation on X, thank you for advising us that you have secured alternative employment; taking X as your date of notice, your employment with us will end on X...'”

It would not be in the slightest bit “easy” for them to do that. If it were that easy to dismiss people, employers who want to get rid of people would do it all the time.

Oh come on Flowery, you really can't imagine a scenario like that? I'm not talking about dismissal in the obvious sense, I'm talking about the employer manipulating the situation whereby they ''understand'' OP to have given notice. Sure, OP could then say, 'hang on, I'm giving you the heads up, not giving notice' but surely it's easier to just wait and give them the correct notice in the first place? Unless OP's on very good terms with her manager/employer and this will soften the blow or lead to a counter offer. If you've never come across manipulation of an employment scenario like this, you must work in a much more 'by the book' industry than I do!

You are talking about dismissal, of course you are. Ending employment based on something an employer writes to an employee rather than the other way around?

I work across lots and lots of industries, and in none of them would this be normal behaviour from an employer. Many of them might wish they could end employment sooner when someone has indicated they are leaving, but none of them would be daft enough to think just writing a letter 'confirming' a fictitious termination date would be sufficient.

I can certainly imagine a scenario like that, but I suppose I've never come across an employer stupid enough to think that's an "easy" way of getting rid of someone. Actually, I lie, I have had one client in an industry where I can imagine that happening. One. Out of many many different industries I've worked with.

I'm not suggesting the OP shouldn't wait, if she's in any doubt, of course she should, but it's ludicrous to say it would be "easy" for an employer to write something like that and use it as a basis for dismissing someone.

Dismissal isn't something it's "easy" to manipulate.

MumUndone

Resignation including confirmation of date of departure has to come from the employee , in written form. Your generalisation of the employer just sending an email unilaterally "confirming" a conversation would not hold water legally, and it wouldn't be difficult to take to Tribunal.. The contract of employment is two-way into which both sides enter and agree to uphold until either side formally signals their wish to terminate. It's pretty clear cut!

Termination on the employer side is via redundancy (with at least statutory redundancy payment) or dismissal, for which they have to justify the reason, or else uphold their statutory minimum obligations.

Termination on the employee side is via resignation, with confirmation of their contractual notice period date of departure.

The employer would be acting unlawfully to unilaterally "decide" on the employee's behalf when they will resign. I very rarely like to bring in the thorny topic of Constructive Dismissal but this most certainly falls into that domain because it is manipulating the employee out of their contract prematurely, against their will, and without any justification.

Maybe you've worked in some dodgy places where it's normal for the employer acts that way, but it is pie in the sky to believe it's a common action. It isn't.

Oh and by the way, the law is the real world, and very much informed by the real world. They aren't mutually exclusive!

OP it sounds like your new employer is helpfully willing to let you take up your employment with them around the Sept timeframe approx.

Depending on when your operation is could you take 6-8 weeks off following your op, on full pay with your current employer, and issue your resignation letter to them around mid August, with a month's notice from then, to enable you to take up employment with your new employer in early Sept?

This gives you 4 weeks in your current role to complete any last remaining tidy up, and back into the swing of work, but not under immense pressure of deadlines, so you won't be tired starting your new job.

I honestly would think of yourself and your family on this one, it sounds like they were unpleasant about you, and it's not surprising you want to leave, so make sure you're covered while you're recovering from surgery.