Employee slightly late every morning.

[ElphabaTheGreen]

NHS inpatient therapy team. I’m a team lead. Working hours are 8am-4pm.

One of our assistants drifts in slightly after 8am every morning - only a few minutes, never later than 8:05. Her work is otherwise absolutely fine - she’s lovely to have in the team. She leaves on the dot at 4pm.

I really can’t get sweaty about the very slight lateness as it has zero impact on her work, and neither can my co-team lead. However one of the other senior therapists (subordinate to us) gets really irked by it, thinks it’s lazy and insists she doesn’t work her core hours as a result. This same therapist works way over her working hours to the point that it covers up service gaps - I tried pointing out that her excess of hours does more damage to the service than the assistant missing a few minutes each week but she wasn’t buying it and thinks we need to address it.

At the end of the day, it’s down to me and the other team lead who are on the same page - we don’t see the point in breeding ill will over a few minutes when it doesn’t affect her work or the service, but am I missing something?

Where I work it's a 5 minute walk from the car park it's also next to a loading bay , where some mornings you can be waiting for a truck to reverse/park up etc . So if the traffic is particularly bad one day which is unavoidable then a truck is reversing so you wait then park up and practically run to clock in . Start time is 9am so if you clock in 9.01 that's late no allowance which I think is unfair especially if by time you pack up turn computer off clock out it can be at least 5.03 -5.04pm . I don't think I've ever clocked out at 5pm ever even if I get in 5 10 minutes early some days .
Saying that every day surly you know to set off a few minutes early but I do think that staff should be able to get changed in works time not own time if that is what's required. In every job is someone who gets in early and starts late and moans about others but we all have other things going on in life .
I agree it needs mentioning if she will think it's ok.

Does the colleague take her entire lunchbreak? Have you even noticed? Most NHS staff don’t. So from that perspective she may be working her contracted hours. As for the therapist working late - while you can’t get security to remove her, you could as a manager create a performance issue for her working late if you think it impacts the quality of her care (which it sounds like it does). I also suggest observing her formally when she’s working late as many people use late working as a front for stuff they shouldn’t be doing at work.

If she is required to get changed into uniform that is regarded as working time. If you had someone on minimum wage you would need to pay them for that time. She does arrive before her start time to get handed and is then changed between 8 and a few minutes past. I think you would be on sticky ground legally if she is on minimum wage but the principle is that same either way. You should really be paying for that time. If you aren't then you certainly shouldn't be quibbling about a few minutes when she is getting changed into a uniform for work!

www.businessleader.co.uk/minimum-wage-changes-dont-named-shamed/43495/

ElphabaTheGreen it doesn’t sound like you’re effectively managing your team tbh - rather than dealing with a team member who is obviously stressed (focusing and getting upset about minor things is a classic symptom) you’re making bitchy comments about them not having a life outside work.

We have someone in our office who I've been wondering about. They are always in late, log into their computer and then go to get a coffee from the coffee bar (which can take 10+ mins). They usually take their full lunch break and then leave early. I'm not their line manager but it's sending me insane, primarily because I can't actually tell what they do while they are at work. If they were working super hard while they were here I think it would frustrate me less, but they spend a lot of time on their mobile phone etc too. I feel churlish being grumpy about it, especially as I'm better paid than them, but I also resent that other people have to shoulder what they don't do.

In comparison, your staff member seems like a dream. I quite like the team meeting idea. Not sure what impact uniform has, I think it's difficult if people aren't permitted to change at home to say they're late if they're changing.

I have to say I can see this both ways - I have been so fucked off by a colleagues minor behaviours that i’ve had to move desks - on the face of it it was so petty but the steady build up of it all combined with my own stress absolutely did my head in.

I’ve also got a colleague who picks up work not actually in his job description; and is constantly moaning about how much he’s got on, how early he gets in, how late he stayed etc. It really drags down team morale.

Both can be sorted by effective management.

@Treacletoots contact centre... so we have to be ready when the phone lines open
It's actually the least stressful job I've been in despite the late twice and lose your commission rule. I overslept by 2hrs and my manager just went at me
I've never actually worked a flexible time job come to think of it, retail, pubs, contact centres, emergency services etc

You need to address this, it doesn’t need to be a big deal just a quite word. It’s over an hour a month, it adds up and causes colleagues disquiet when you don’t address things like this.

I get really irked by colleagues who clock watch other colleagues so the moaner would drive me nuts.

But, yeah, could be nipped in the bud easily with a come back from lunch 5 minutes earlier or something.

It’s over an hour a month, it adds up

But don’t forget the woman in question is giving over 3 hours a month to the department by coming in 5 mins early each day to get changed and having to stay behind 5 mins after her shift every day to get changed too. That’s 50mins a week if she’s full time, which she could well throw back in your face if you approach her.
If she works in the NHS and some people who arrive at work 5 minutes after her are still seen as being on time because they wear their uniform to work I don’t really think there’s a lot you can do really, because technically she’s arriving to work early every day it just takes her longer than 5 mins to get changed.
Also, you need to make sure she isn’t taking longer than 5 mins to get changed because she has a medical problem etc because then you’re going to need to make proper adjustments for her to get ready as she could say she’s being treated unfairly because of this.

I’m usually early for work because I hate rushing around last minute, I’ve very rarely been late for work and usually if I am it’s beyond my control such as my (autistic) dd having had a meltdown at the before school club because they’ve redecorated overnight and forgot to tell me. But I don’t expect everyone to arrive early and I don’t really care if people run a few minutes late either so long as they pull their weight at work.

You know her as a worker is she likeable and lazy because that will eventually wear thin with people or is she someone who slogs with everyone else all day? If she’s hard working I’d look at the bigger picture.

I think you have issues with the moaning person too tbh as she obviously thinks she’s senior to the department, she doesn’t leave when she’s told to by management which makes me think she feels she’s above the rules somehow.

Ignoring you and going home late is just as rude as coming in late to be honest especially when you have spoken to her about it. You’ve asked her to stop doing something she doesn’t feel she should listen to you and does her own thing.
So really you need to address both or neither.

Next time she brings it up why don’t you say to her I can’t discuss other colleagues and their needs with you as it would be breaching data protection laws.

Or better still tell her to approach her work colleague herself about it for an informal chat and if that doesn’t work to come to you for help with mediation.
She might suddenly think it’s not as much of an issue when she has to do her own dirty work rather than run to the manager to complain and that act all innocent unaware when the other worker gets pulled up on it.

Do you have monthly / weekly departmental meetings? Ask her to bring it up in any other business because then she can air her concerns and you can address them publicly then the balls in her court.
If she brings it up you could reiterate that everyone needs to be ready to work for 8am (maybe you would need to check with HR first where you stand with this legally) and thatbway no one has been singled out then you could also add that as well as arriving late staff need to ensure they are leaving on time. You could come up with a list of reasons such as and it stops the cleaners being able to do their work properly, you’re concerned it leads to poorer performance, it’s a fire hazard because everyone is expected to be off shift by a certain time so no one would expect staff there if there’s a fire, it breaches health and safety and lone worker guidelines etc. Then say you will be monitoring both in the coming weeks until the next meeting.

That’s way if it continues it can be brought up at the following meeting and you can then say you will be speaking to staff personally about this if they continue. That way if you have to speak to either colleague you’ve given them 2 months to get their act together.

Hoppyhoppyhappy that is completely terrible advice.

Why thank you

Yes, because your advice up until this point has been completely on point Dyrne. And by ‘advice’ I mean ‘thinly veiled insults’ and ‘superiority’. You’re either the world’s most amazing manager or you work with robots.

Hoppy I have done that offer of mediation with a very irritating snitching staff member in the past and it worked wonders (ie she resigned to my very great relief). All sound advice, thank you.

I think it's a bit odd you are more bothered by the staff doing the extra bit each day that the one who is late. Sounds unfair to me.

It is all well good saying you shouldn't work extra but if I dont finish what I am doing I have to catch up tomorrow the work isn't going to go away.

Over a 47 weeks, assuming 5 weeks AL. This is just shy of 20 hours. 20 hours of free pay.

LL83 Because it covers up gaps in service for which we could theoretically demonstrate the need for extra staff - assuming she’s working efficiently and genuinely needing that time. Someone working an extra 3-4 hours per week to cover the workload does a lot more damage to our staffing levels than someone under-working by less than 25 minutes.

People who have enough time to calculate how much time a colleague’s lateness adds up to have too much time on their hands. Also are they doing this maths in works time or their own?

Haven't read whole thread, unusual for me , but just wanted to say that anyone using public transport can find it hard to be on time sometimes. My buses are currently being v unreliable. It can also explain people rushing off at a certain time as some buses are only once an hour.

I could only get annoyed about this if they had appointments and it meant that they were late from the get go every day so people were waiting.

Otherwise - meh. If they do a good job why does the 5 minutes matter? Quality of work is far more important than clock watching.

I understand that she is covering a gap in service but as the manager you could highlight the gap by saying service is only manageable as xxxx works late every single day.

The stress the gap in service would cause to a conciencious person is huge. Coming into work a little bit more behind every day so a gap could be seen so that some day when she is at breaking point the team might get a few extra hours is a big ask. And realistically rather than giving additional hours they would ask you to prioritise and drop something. Even if they did fund 3 extra hours unless someone is willing to increase contract you cannot recruit to such a small post.

If you want the funding for more hours you have to tell your boss repeatedly and hope they eventually listen and start the process of getting extra hours. I realise it is unlikely to happen though.

If we are late we are docked pay per minute. The clocking in system does it automatically.

Meh. It's five minutes. If her work is good I don't see the big deal.

Just out of interest, how does she travel in to work?

I remember some years ago I had to get the bus to the station - there was 1 bus an hour. The bus got me to the station about a minute after the ideal train left, and I had to wait 40 minutes for another one. If the next train was on time I got to work with seconds to spare and if the train was late (which was often) then I would be late.

Jobsworths moaned. The trouble was that I would have had to leave home and get the bus a whole hour earlier to get to work, and I'd then have to hang about for ages for someone to get there with the keys and open up. (It was a bank, so I couldn't let myself in!!).

The most annoying thing was that I worked unpaid overtime every day for at least 15 minutes.