Traveling for work - fed up

[TedsBaker]

I work in a team which delivers specialist training. We used to just do London but have since expanded and now travel all over the UK. There are standard materials that we use but the preparation includes a lot of research and creating parts bespoke to the company we visit, so there's a fair amount of work that goes into it on top of the 3-4 hours of the training itself.

We do this 1-4 times per month and as you can imagine it's pretty tiring and stressful. To save costs we often leave London early and avoid overnights at almost all costs.

My issue is that we are not given any time back or given flexible working hours to recover. No working from home the day after training, for example, no time off in leiu.

I raised this with my line manager and she snapped at me that we were all tired, not just me, and that I wasn't going to get special treatment. My contact is apparently very clear that from time to time I will be expected to undertake as hoc tasks which means I have to work beyond my contracted hours.

I'm clearly not asking for special treatment, I'm just fed up of feeling run down and exhausted all the time and I know my colleagues feel the same although they have not raised the matter with our manager directly. One is actively looking for another job. We are all mid-late 20s and our manager is about 35 so we think she just doesn't trust us, although she has never raised performance concerns with me or any of my colleagues (according to them).

We also usually have to wait ages for holidays to be approved, she gets annoyed if we book time off over scheduled training days but as the calendar is packed full of training or prep work it's basically impossible to pick a "good" time off. One guy dropped out of a group holiday because by the time she approved his days off the flight prices had tripled and he didn't feel it was worth it.

Is there anything I can do or shall I just admit defeat and look for a different job myself?

How about just honestly saying you are finding it too tiring and considering looking for other work. You don't have frame it as a complaint but just you're letting them know so they can decide if they want to act. You might mention that you are aware other colleagues feel the same.
Sometimes that's enough for them to realise the impact it is having. Then the ball's in their court.

I think 8:00-17:45 with no lunch break is quite a long day and if it was every week (4 times a month) I would expect some leeway even if just arriving at the office a bit later the next day.

How are they with ad hoc things like over running lunch or going to appointments in work time? That makes a difference as well IMO.

At the stage of life I'm in now I wouldn't stay in a job with those hours even for over £30,000.

To be honest OP, I don't think those hours are particularly long/bad especially if it's only like that 1-4 times a month. The majority of people I know work much longer hours every day and would jump at the chance to have 8am-7.30pm as their hours including travel time. But these people get paid considerably more money than £30k.

Ultimately, if you're finding it too much, I think it's time to look for another job that gives you the work/life balance you're seeking. Life is too short, and I think it's unlikely that your manager's attitude will change.

No I know, I have a friend who is a nurse and she regularly does 12 hour shifts, night shifts etc.

I can't help being tired.

Thank you for your input, everyone. I'll have to do some thinking.

Of course you can’t help being tired, but I think context is very helpful here in terms of working out to what extent your employer is behaving unreasonably and deciding next steps for you. Possibly a job involving training/travel even to a small extent just isn’t for you.

OP I'm staggered you are earning less than £30k pa, to prepare training, travel and deliver the training to clients. I bet your employer gets a good revenue, and they aren't exactly generous in their remuneration.

I don't feel your work pattern is excessive but the toll it is taking on you in terms of the burden of responsibility for the salary they pay you doesn't exactly set the world on fire, does it!? Business travel can be fatiguing and stressful, it certainly isn't a jolly. You have to be bright and breezy for every client you visit even when you're knackered!

See it as a stepping stone. There are lots of internal opportunities in SME and large corporate where training is a crucial part of change programs, which is very enjoyable as you'll be training internal staff who you get to know and build rapport with.

You wouldn't necessarily need to travel externally (or if you do, make sure the company is geared up to offer you better 'family-friendly' T&Cs than your current employer eg TOIL, better pay and bens etc

I don't like your employer's approach to annual leave approvals. They should be much more responsive and supportive to your statutory right to time off, not dragging their heels and making staff feel bad for wanting holiday.

I think you can do is make complete assertive statements e.g. "I will be taking 3 hours off on Friday to compensate for xyz on Thursday" and see how they react

All this does is 'mark the OPs card' as being a clock-watcher and not willing to go the extra mile. There will be people who don't mind the hours, and ask for more. The employer may respond by giving the time back, but there's no guarantee the OP won't miss out on a future opportunity that's given to people who say nothing.

Sounds pretty typical in training! Look for another way to develop your career is my top tip.

I think those sort of hours are pretty normal in a training role and at your age I am surprised you find it so tiring. My DH is late 50s and regularly travels long hours on top of a busy working day, frequently up at 5.30am & home very late. The idea of complaining under the WTD rules would be laughable in his profession.

I earn barely more than minimum wage but, as an example, yesterday did a 12 hour day not getting home until 10pm. Yes, I did ‘choose’ to do it but to a certain extent to be valued in your career you need to occasionally work longer hours, and I love what I do which obviously helps.

I also don't think this is a big deal having run a training Sept. We used to do a late start the following day if it was about 11pm home or an excessively busy week like 4 training inputs with travel.

However you are framing this as if training is not really part of the job but has been added. If you don't want to do it then I would probably job hunt but otherwise ask if it can be removed.

I sounds like you are very routinised. In very many jobs you have to get up early to go to a different location for a meeting /conference /event. Many people enjoy the change in routine. And if you are tired one night after work you just go to bed early.

I think you need to have a think about what sort of job you actually want.

You are in your 20s - you would be daft not to look around to see what is out there.

Woke up at 6am (instead of 7am) to ensure I was in London for an 8am train for 2 hours. Arrive in city at 10am, training starts at 10:30 and goes on until 3pm. Lunch is in the room with clients who ask questions. Train back to London at 3.30, get in to London at 5:45. Finally get home for 7.30pm.

This is a normal day for some people. I'd be looking at possible reasons for it wiping you out so much at such a young age.

My boss has asked if I'd be open to taking charge of a London based contract (I'm in Scotland) which would mean spending 2 days a month in London - up at 4am, an early morning (6:30) flight, meetings & home visits all day both days then a lateish (7/7:30pm) flight back up, I'd get home around 10pm on the second day... & I will be tired but not so tired that I'd struggle to be at my desk in the office for 8:15 the next morning & I'm 40!

However, I wouldn't be expected to be at my desk at that time the next morning, I've been offered a decent pay rise to account for the travel, all food etc will go on expenses, there are other periodic trips to London where I'll have some free time for sightseeing, I get flexibility for DS's school events & it's a fantastic opportunity for me as I've only been with the company 6 months - all of which compensate for me being knackered a couple of days a month. You don't seem to be getting any form of compensation for working a longer than normal (for you) day so that should be addressed & it would be better if it was addressed collectively by you & your colleagues.

With regards to the WTD you can opt out/in of/to that at any time but as someone upthread said it's unlikely you're over the average anyway.

”I'd be looking at possible reasons for it wiping you out so much at such a young age.”

Yes, this. It really isn’t normal to be so “run down and exhausted” from getting up at 6am and getting home at 7.30pm 1-4 times a month.

I deliver training as part of my role and a day like the OP has described is far more tiring than an equivalent day to attend a meeting or work off-site. Leading training is a very intensive form of interaction and I find myself pretty wrung-out on the train home afterwards. You can be presenting for 5-6 hours! I work pt so generally have a bit of recovery time built in, but I too wouldn’t want to rush back in to the office the next day.

However, what I would say is that you are gaining great experience. Stick it out for a year and perhaps press your employer on being able to work from home the following day?

There is also a big difference in doing long days and travel on £50k compared to £26k! The OP could probably get a fairly hassle-free job somewhere else in London and earn the same money.

Woke up at 6am (instead of 7am) to ensure I was in London for an 8am train for 2 hours. Arrive in city at 10am, training starts at 10:30 and goes on until 3pm. Lunch is in the room with clients who ask questions. Train back to London at 3.30, get in to London at 5:45. Finally get home for 7.30pm.

This really isn't that difficult or unusual - even for the salary level you're on

The more you post, the more precious you're sounding actually! Lots of people routinely work those hours. Getting up at 6 is pretty widespread, especially if you have to commute to your office, and getting home at 7.30pm isn't that unusual either. PP suggesting TOIL for these hours is, frankly, bizarre.

I'm wondering, as other PP, if there's some physical reason for your apparent level of tiredness when you're also only doing this 1-4 times a month?

Does the op have kids to organise, get to bed, sort out school and childcare when she gets home every night? Is she getting kids ready and taking them to childcare in the morning?
Surprised no-ones asked this.

@User1011 I assume if OP was dealing with kids & childcare they'd have listed this in the run down of a typical day, as there was no mention of kids I think it's safe to say there are none.

However, I'm not sure what difference having kids would make as many people deal with kids & work those hours every day - it's called life & as grown ups we just need to get on with it.

It's 1-4 times a month, so at most once a week & it's not even what most people would consider an early start & a late night if she's leaving at 7am & home by 7:30pm, this shouldn't be wiping the OP out so much that she's struggling to be at her desk ready to work for 8:30am the next day.

I do those hours but don't have the benefit of 4 of them being on a train (assume booked so a seat rather than packed commuter one) where I assume you can relax a bit?

I think Theres some good advice on here foe you op.

It seems mad that you a so very wiped out by the travel, I do agree with others that it isn’t excessive. But it is tiring you out. So something needs to be addressed.

Id look at if there’s an underlying medical issue

If that comes up Ok then perhaps you are knackered because you’ve had a gutsfull of the job anyway. It would be wise to start looking in earnest for another one. Not bothering to apply for other jobs ‘in case they are just as bad‘ is madness.

If you do get an offer, you could always go back to your boss and use it to negotiate better conditions or more pay. And if one of the others on your team is close to quitting that might add more weight to your argument.

Training is more tiring than meetings I agree. But OP is only delivering training for 3-4 hours at a time, a maximum of once a week, sometimes as seldom as once a month, and is getting home at a reasonable hour in plenty of time to go to bed early. It really isn’t normal to be so run down and exhausted because of this type of schedule.

OP you sound just like me in my 20s

I battled my way through a few of these jobs, had quite a lot of illness, though it sounds like I was being paid more than you. (probably, as I feel like salaries have gone down in my field). None of these jobs involved travel, just long hours in the office.

then I was offered a job with a big salary bump which involved travel. I said no because I'd be too tired and I fucking hate travelling, even if just in the UK. My friends and family thought it was mad - except my mum, who understood that eventually that tiredness would lead to illness.

It took till my early 30s to realise that I needed to put my foot down and say "these are the results I get - I have personal rules about recuperating from work etc, so if you don't like that, don't hire me".

I realise that can only come from a position of affordability. But at one point, I was doing Saturday filing in an office with another friend - the type of job that I think you cant really get any more because no one will pay - and we had done the maths and worked out that at certain levels, it was better to take on extra work for extra hourly pay, rather than go for these nebulous long hours jobs with "promise".

you say you're on less than £30k. It's worth thinking about what you can do that's less stressful and has a similar hourly rate, and seeing how it compares. Then also see what you want for the future. I thought I wanted to climb the career ladder, but actually my only interest was the money. The rest of it was all just boring shite to me.

I acknowledge that lots of people leave the house at 7ish and don't get back until 7.30pm - but most of those people will be going to their regular place of work, to do desk-based work and have time in the day to pause, reflect and regain energy.

Anyway, the OP is finding it hard - it doesn't matter if 100 other people do it every day or find it a piece of cake.

I also agree that it is good to identify your own boundaries. For me it is early starts. If a journey would require me to leave my house before 7.00am, then I do an overnight stay. I do not perform at my best if I have to leave very early and, for the rate of pay I am on, that is a reasonable boundary.

”Anyway, the OP is finding it hard - it doesn't matter if 100 other people do it every day or find it a piece of cake.”

I think it matters in terms of how she addresses it. If her workload/hours were objectively abnormal and her employer wasn’t providing sufficient recovery time, and/or she was being underpaid when compared to similar jobs elsewhere, it’s absolutely something to be addressed robustly with them.

But if the workload/travel/frequency/length of day aren’t particularly out of the ordinary, which is the case, the best next steps for the OP would probably not be to make a fuss with her employer, but instead to think about whether there are any underlying personal or medical issues contributing to her exhaustion, and also whether a change in career might be appropriate.

OP just another note in case it helps

I also used to think there might be something wrong with my health because everyone else seemed to be fine

it took me a while to realise that for me, it was all combined with sensory overload and that was partly why I was so tired; it wasn't a physical tiredness I'd get from overdoing workouts or something, but I was tired on a different level.

I think the long commute lifestyle has become so normal, I thought there was something wrong with me for not suiting it - but I had forgotten that actually loads of people don't live that way and would also hate it and find it exhausting.

I don’t think this is bad considering your age and assuming you have no children. I would stick it out and look for something else with no travel if you find it really hard.