HR advice needed - sick pay and employer responsibility

[CanIretireearly]

Hello. Hope someone can advise me. I’ve never been off sick for a long time until now. I’ve been off since mid November with work related stress . I won’t go into details about the background but work related stress is on my sick note. I’ve now had a letter from payroll saying I will go on half pay from mid May.

My concern is that I’ve done everything I can to aid my recovery. Been to doctors regularly. Taking medication. Going to yoga. Starting to feel Some improvements but definitely not ready to return yet.

My employer should have referred me to occupational health as soon as I went off sick but for various reasons this referral didn’t happen until last month and I am seeing occ health on Monday. I also asked manager for referral to counselling which is available for at least 6 sessions but having asked 3 times I have just found out she hasn’t done the referral yet but has promised to do it next week.

I know they sometimes extend full pay in exceptional circumstances and wondered if the delays in the above referrals could be cited as a reason to request an extension if I still need to be off beyond middle of May. Any advice welcome. Thank you

I should have said. I first asked for the counselling referral in early Feb, then again in March and she told me she would do it urgently. I hadn’t heard anything so phoned her a few days ago and as she was on training for most of the week she said she would sort it on Monday.

We have six months at full pay then six months half pay and wouldn’t even think of asking them to extend the full pay, since it’s already way over SSP. Can’t you self refer to the counselling service? Phone them up and ask.

I doubt they’re going to continue to pay you your full salary behind six months... Do you have any timescale as to when you plan to return?
Stress or no, you can’t have someone else covering your job whilst you still get paid indefinitely.

Most companies give statutory sick pay inly so you're very fortunate to have had full pay for so long and now be getting half pay.
You can of course ask, they can only say no.
What's being done about addressing the root cause of your workplace stress? When do you expect to return to work, even if on a phased return basis.

What was the cause of the work related stress?

Is there a chance that you can go back into a different role, or team, or something?

Did your GP not refer you for therapy/counselling when you first went off, did you ask? Or were you solely waiting on the employer-funded provision (which is daft, surely you'd take everything you can get).

Lots of people are SSP immediately so extending full pay must be at your organisation's discretion. What does the policy say about occupational health referrals ?

(t's possible that your employer cannot make the counselling referral until the full OH report comes through - so delaying OH has delayed the counselling.

We usually only extend full sick pay in exceptional circumstances such as having cancer, strokes and other life limiting illnesses. We wouldn’t usually consider it for stress related conditions.

Has the source of your stress been addressed in the workplace? 6 months is an exceptionally long time to be off. I usually ask people in for a meeting after a month or two (in cases where they cite it’s work related) as often the problem can’t be addressed without engaging with your employer and looking for ways to reduce the problem.

Whilst I don’t think your employer have been the quickest in dealing with this, you have had full pay for 6 mo already (which is very generous in private sector organisations!) how much more full pay would you want?

Thanks for quick response. I’ve never been off long term before. Last time I was was off was 2 days in 2013 so I do feel awful about being off and I know I am lucky to have such a good sick pay scheme.

Unfortunately we can’t self refer. It has to be done by manager but I will also mention it at occupational health appointment as hopefully they can do this too.

I just wonder if there is grounds to ask for extension as employer hasn’t followed policy correctly. I never expected to be off this long. Thanks

They're already going way beyond statutory requirements, so I doubt you'd stand a chance requesting an extension. They're not obliged to arrange counselling for you, though this is good practice, so this wouldn't be grounds to extend what is already, by any standards, a very generous sick pay package.

They may not have followed policy correctly in respect of the OH referral- but the purpose of the OH is to help the business understand whether and when they could expect you to return to work, whether in the same role or a different one and what adjustments might be necessary.

The purpose of the OH referral is not to provide you with treatment for whatever illness you have.

I don't see how it's relevant in extending your full pay?

It is most likely that your employer has an insurance contract that provides this scheme and therefore very unlikely it will be possible for them to extend it.

Best wishes for your recovery.

You have not answered the questions about when you will be back. In my experience, most people with work related stress do not return.they either resign or are terminated on I'll health grounds.
What's happening about the root causes?
Have you sought counselling yourself or are you just waiting for work to sort it out?

I also agree with what Palahvah said.

Also if you’re on full sick pay then you’ll be saving on commuting costs etc. so is there a reason you haven’t arranged for counselling yourself privately? Or via the GP?

You need to separate your illness, your pay and your feelings about your employers. Unfortunately I've had several stints of long term sickness when recovering from injuries in my 15 years with my current employer (in various roles). 6 months full pay and 6 months half pay is standard and I have never seen this changed even when people have gone through horrific things like the death of a child so I would say an extension based on the info you have given is very unlikely. Could you source counselling yourself? Have you met with a manager to talk about the source of your stress and what can be done to support you?

Unfortunately Occupational Health isn't to provide you with treatment, advice or counselling as pp have said. It's a discussion about getting you back to work, when and if you need reasonable adjustments in the workplace.

They won't refer you for anything or offer you any support. It's not what it's for I'm afraid.

Thanks for all responses. I was just asking out of interest. I won’t go back until I feel well enough and feel that manager has considered what needs changing in terms of work as it can’t continue the way it was. Gp did offer nhs counselling but at that stage I could barely get out of bed so I declined it but then spoke to manager and was told it was best to go through employer service and she would arrange it but hasn’t so far.

You are getting way more than is mandatory I wouldn’t be complaining

Thanks for all responses

In terms of going back I had hoped to be back by now. I think I had been overworked/stressed for so long that it really wiped me out. I have talked to manager about my hopes for returning but she has cancelled some meetings so it’s difficult as most of our communication has been over the phone.

I am going to ask to go part time as I think this will help me in the long term.

I am also determined to learn to say no more. I think I have been too willing to take on extra especially as we have had others off in long term stress situations. This is public sector.

I’m not greedy and realise 6 months full pay is good but it also feels wrong that employer hasn’t followed their own policy in terms of occupational health referral in particular.

My work is barely being covered. My manager has told me that only critical work is being covered and everything else is piling up for me.

I should have clarified the initial sick notes said work related stress. The sick notes now say work related stress and depression. I have ended up on antidepressants which seem to now be helping a little bit it has been a tough slog to get the dosage right.

No harm in asking, if you are aware that your employer do extend it on a discretionary basis sometimes.

I work for the NHS and had a 12 month period off with bipolar disorder.
The trust were adamant that I should be seen by occupational health at all points and would not let me back at work until occupational health agreed.
There was evidence that how they dealt with my sickness initially was not good and they had been less than supportive.
I ended up in hospital for 9 weeks.
There was many a delay in being referred to occupational health and being seen. Then they said that occupational health could not make decisions I needed to be referred to a psychiatrist to be seen. This again caused a delay and lots of uncertainty as occupational health didn’t have a psychiatrist so work had to do a bespoke referral and pay separately for this.
All in all there was many a delay which I believe made my condition worse and resulted in the hospital stay.
I was I touch with HR and my managers every week.
After six months I was due to drop down to half pay and I successfully argued that my sick time had been longer than it should due to these delays. After some discussion and dry senior managers becoming involved I was able to negotiate full pay until I was well enough to return - so a total of 12 months.
I think the delays in accessing the correct occupational health with the admission by the trust that they had in part contributed to my illness meant they had little choice but to keep me on full pay.
So it can be done but would I suppose depend on your company. I had to argue long and hard but they had pissed me off so much with hiw they handled the whole thing I was not letting it go.

I think it's one of those "you can only ask..." situations - who knows, they might say yes!

In Th1me's example, their employer would not let them back until occ health said it was ok given the seriousness of the incapacity, and then messed up the forms/process - a good argument for staying on full pay.

In your case, yes they have messed up the forms, but they aren't insisting you don't return until you're seen occ health. Also, why haven't you asked your GP for a referral to counselling again, even though you (understandably) refused the first time? I know you said your manager said it was best to wait for the company one, but why were you taking medical advice from your manager? (Playing devils advocate here and thinking what your employer might argue back). Is counselling definitely going to get you back to work? (Of course you won't know this).

Definitely mention to Occ Health about the work piling up. I was off for a few months fairly recently with MH issues, when I saw occ health and said my work had piled up they were horrified especially when I told them this was the second time they'd done it (had previously had a longish spell due to a back procedure that went wrong), and recommended work sort it out.

As has been said, occ health aren't a treatment service, they'll want to know what you've been doing to get yourself well, and when you expect to go back to work. The remit is set by the employer and they aren't "there for you" like your own doctor. They can make recommendations for reasonable adjustments (like going part time, or at least a long period of phased return) but the employer isn't bound by them.

Good luck - I know how nerve wracking this is.