Term time working and inset days

[Stickmangate]

Hi any advice on this greatfully received.

I work 24hrs per week over 4 days term time only (not in a school normal office) I have also requested all inset/training days off there are 5 per year.

If a inset day falls on my none working day what happens? Should I be credited/paid for that day? As I would not be working any way so they haven’t lost out example 2 of the inset days fall on a none working days so they are only loosing me for 3 days due to insets days but I am down 5 days pay.

When I was just part time if a bank holiday fell on a none working day I got hours back but In turn had to book bank holidays that fell on working days off. And I’m and thinking inset days to be the same.
No one at work seems sure and hr have just said I can’t claim time back. Views please

Why have you requested 5 days off if 2 of them fall on non-working days anyway? I presume you could just ask for the 3 that you need and they don't need to know anything about the other 2.

I don't think your entitled to extra paid days off in this situation. It's different to bank holidays.

No, it's a pain but you can only be required to work on your contracted days unless it's vital training eg safeguarding in which case you might get TOIL or pay. You absolutely will have to attend that inset day annually as every adult in school does.

@ImTheRealHFella , I understand it that the OP does not work in a school but in an office and only works 4 days per week term time only and has requested her DCs schools inset days off also. 2 of this years inset days do not fall on her working days. OP is asking if they are entitled to these days.

Thanks for the replies. I don’t work in a school but have requested my Dc inset days off. I was told that it’s either all off or none off.

However since I posted I have been asked for the dates of the inset days so they may be looking at only not paying for the ones that fall on working days.

As the inset days change each academic year for ease I am willing to not be paid for the standard 5 inset days and then have days off in loo(?) for any that fall on a none working day. There are likely to be some years where they are all on work days.

Just wondering how they will calculate my pay as finical year ends in April but academic starts in September and I won’t know next school years days till September.

Is this all stated in your contract?
Or have you stated that you would use 5 days of your a/leave for your DCs inset days? In this case you shouldn't lose money/holiday. However if you have asked for the inset days to be additional (I assume you negotiated this) then I wouldn't expect them to pay for inset days that fall outside your working pattern.

I'm confused. Why have you asked for time off on days you don't normally work anyway? Just book holiday for the days you would otherwise be working and need to take off, surely? This sounds unnecessarily complicated.

Is it because term time contracts are 38 weeks but the school terms add up to 39 weeks (with under days as extra, usually tagged into the beginning or end of a school term)? Therefore, your contract may be for 38 weeks but you will work over 39 weeks as we school terms.

Onset days, not under days!!

If the inset day is not on a day you work , why would you be entitled to be paid for it. If it falls on a working day can you swap days that week, or work longer hours on your remaining 3 days, to make time up.

You have mentioned that you lose pay, are these days you take for inset days unpaid leave? In this case no you will not be entitled to time in lieu for the inset days that fall on non-working days.

I think it depends how they pay you. If they deduct a day's pay each time you are off then they can just do that 3 times if that is all that is needed. If they have calculated you work a week less, so say 38 weeks instead of 39 weeks and divide that monthly, then you should be entitled to 5 'holiday' days, or extra pay if you don't take them off.

You could say to them that you need 3 days off. Would they like you to book two other days off, say when it's sports day, or would they prefer to pay you extra. They may need to count the days April to April though and see how many you take in that year.

Surely you just book them as holiday then?

What I suspect should happen in this scenario would be that you request a 39 week working year.

There should then be an additional clause in your contract which says that your weeks off must coincide with normal school holidays and you should provide details of the days/weeks you require off in good time ahead of the company’s usual year (eg January to December). Our schools publish term and inset details a year in advance - so we already know the 2019 to 2020 year (save for the Sept 2020 start of term). Assuming I had to notify the company by April 2019 of the September 2019-September 2020 dates, that shouldn’t cause a problem - all four schools we have had our DC at over the years have published well in advance.

From there, your company should write to confirm which days you are required to be in work and which you are not on an annual basis.

If for example you only needed one inset day out of five in a given year, once you have notified your employer of the dates, they should write to confirm the adjustment for the year, including crediting any extra days pro rata to your annual salary. You are ordinarily taking 4/5 (days) of 13 weeks, so if the inset days work out as 4/5 (days) then that automatically balances, but if it’s more or less then your salary will need to reflect a deduction or increase to reflect any additional days taken or worked (and your contract should reflect that fact too).

To stop you from “losing” pay each month, your employer should be deeming all holiday as taken during the unpaid periods, but clearly allocating the relevant percentage of your salary as holiday in your contract. Your salary should then be paid in 12 equal monthly instalments so you don’t lose pay month by month.

The other alternative is that you ask for a 40 week year and just take inset days as holiday. That way there is no annual adjustment required.

So whilst you aren’t entitled to a lieu day as such, your employer does need to calculate how many working days/weeks there are each year under the contract, unless you’re just requesting holiday days for the inset days.

Oh and for the TLDR version - it’s purely a matter of contractual agreement how it’s dealt with, as long as year by year you only have days deducted where you should be in work, but are not in work due to inset/holiday days.