How does your company sort out flexi time?

[Curlybrunette]

Hey,

DH and I own a small company (9 employees). The job is mainly office based but we do sometimes do events which run into the evenings/weekends.

We are looking at how best to deal with flexi time, it has always been a very casual, X would say "I worked till 8 last night, can I leave early on Friday afternoon". This is not a problem, if people have appointments/need to go home to feed their dog/want to work fro home/want a lie in one day, we all just go with the flow.

As time has gone on the staff have changed slightly, there seems to be a bit more of "I'm working until 8pm tomorrow, so I'll leave at lunchtime on Friday" so it's like they are gaining more hours back then they had to work.

We are quite a laid back company, in that we really don't want it to be a clock in-clock out system, with it being an exact count to the minute, but we are starting to feel that slightly more time is being taken back then is needed. We've always just ran things on trust, and thought if people want to leave early then that's fine, if people are tired, they won't work as effectively etc.

I guess I don't want to upset our happy company (I do think hope that everyone is happy with us).

What is the flexi system was where you work?

Thanks

We have timesheets (professional services so time is what we bill and needs to be recorded).
As a rule we don't have TOIL anymore but when it is agreed and worked it goes on timesheets and gets booked and then sits on the staff members ledger to be taken back.

Probably doesn't help you much.

We have an online system on which we record our working day. Start and finish with lunch times also recorded. We're in theory allowed to build up 2 days to take off each month but have to ask the manager and book in advance. We get told no if it's not ok. If we go over the 2 days we lose the time as the online system automatically reverts to zero.

Our company do it on trust but we tend to give more hours than we get. Might be worth having a meeting and state what you have above. It might nip the mickey taking in the bud before you start a more formal system

If people leaving halfway through the day is not convenient for the business needs, then you might want to think about introducing core hours. For instance, where I last worked, everyone had to be in the office or available (if wf home) from 10-12 and 2-3:30. Outside that there was a rota to cover the rest of business hours, but you could come and go as you wanted. Where I work now is also flexi but no core hours, I wouldn't be able to decide myself that I was taking time off on a whim like you describe.

If I wanted to take Friday afternoon off I would still have to book it in advance and then decide if I was using accrued flexitime or a/l.

Working until 8 and taking Friday avo off is not flexitime, it's compressed hours! Different thing altogether, a change in working pattern. Flexitime is supposed to be accrued over time and used at a future date.

We have core hours and we should only work between set hours I.e no earlier than 08:00 and no later than 20:00. Flexi should also only be accrued if there is a business need. Today I worked beyond my usual hours because I had to finish something off, but I couldn't potter around the office just to add 30 minutes on my time sheet.

It is not permitted to do what your staff are doing and work later for the purpose of gaining flexi hours to take another day and we would risk losing that time and/or losing flexible working if it was found to be abused.

There is also a maximum amount of hours we can be in credit/minus and the hours should be used within the next month (according to policy but this isn't really monitored)

Meant to add, we also have timesheets (excel docs) that should be checked monthly by the line manager, and can be requested at any time by HR for a spot check.

I work for a large insurance company, I work 30 hours a week, this is measured by how long I am logged onto my computer, I am also allowed to do 1/3 of my work from home, again, this is monitored via my computer activity. I choose to do most of my work in work, my motivation at home is terrible.

When I was a Civil Servant we could work any time from 7.00am to 6.00pm, our core hours were 10.00am - 4.00pm we could take lunch between 11.00am - 3.00pm a maximum of 2 hours & could take off 2.5 days every 4 weeks. We could accumulate or borrow 50% of our weekly hours.

Thanks for all your replies.

I think as we are a small company we wanted to keep it as a trust thing, but there are 8 of us and it seems as the last 2 or 3 people have started, so we've gotten bigger, it seems harder to keep control.

We were trying to avoid a really formal system but I think if we grow anymore we might need to put things in place.

I'm going to have a proper read through of your systems and see if I can make a plan for us.

Thanks again

I used to work for a small company and always did more time than I ever took back. It worked really well for years as a casual thing, but a couple of new starts took the piss and in the subsequent clamp down the rest of us lost a lot of work flexibility (unfairly in my opinion)
I now work for a very large organisation where we log in our start and finish times on a spreadsheet, we have core hours and have the choice of half an hour to 2 hours for lunch. We can take a maximum of 1 day or 2 half days flexi time off in each 4 week cycle, and it is quite easy to accumulate, ding actual necessary work, an additional couple of extra hours to be able to finish early say 4pm for a personal appointment. Taking any flexi-time must be approved by a line manager to ensure adequate staffing levels are maintained. With a set limit like that you don’t get people hanging about to gain more hours than they would be allowed to take back.
Having worked with an easy going system and then with a more formal system I prefer the later as everyone knows where they stand.
It sounds a little like your employees are a little to used to doing as they please. You don’t have to allow a mass exodus on a Friday lunchtime if it doesn’t meet your company needs.

What about a rota for staff as you say you know you are need staff to 7 .
So everyone does there aloted hours .

In a previous job, it was timesheets. You had to be in during core hours (10:00-16:00.) Flexi leave had to be booked in advance and no more than two flexible days a month.

Current job - basically track it yourself, but if you're taking a half day, e.g. leaving at lunchtime, that has to be arranged in advance, but leaving an hour early (or getting in at 10:00) is down to managing yourself and trust (as long as you don't miss any meetings.) Some people get formal changes, e.g. one guy officially finishes at 3pm each day, so he can do the school run, then works a couple of hours from home in the evening, but that sort if thing has to be prearranged.

Also depends on the role - some departments have to ensure they are covered for particular hours, and they tend to work on a rota.

It also depends on manager's past experience - those who've had people take the piss are less trusting and might put in a spreadsheet in place or something to track it. But many of us have to sometimes do out of hours work, including weekends and overnight, so flexibility goes both ways.

With most people, going on trust is fine, but it's the ones you can’t trust where you need tracking.

We have core hours too. Must be working 10 - 4:30 but have a 2hr window either end of the day with when you start/finish. Obviously late start = late finish.

Sorry to add a couple of days after your OP but rather than focus on changing your current arrangement, why don’t you speak individually to the ones that are not following what is normally done?

Your issue is with 2-3 people, not 8 people, so have an honest and frank conversation with each of them about your expectations when it comes to flexi time.

Keep it simple - flexi time must be agreed in advanced and dependent on work activity, not having Fridays off work.

Sometimes you have to have the awkward conversations and I think this is one of those times.

I think that as there are so few of you and the extra hours are worked for evening events you just need to be a bit more disciplined really.
E.g.
This month we have 3 events with a 9pm finish. Janet, you need to cover one of these. You will accrue 4 hours, please write in the diary when you intend to take them (within the same month(

You've had good advice OP.

Realistically your company is getting beyond the size where you can work solely on trust.

Speaking confidentially with individuals about expectations is a good idea.

Remember accrual of and taking back of time is always by agreement.

I think just sending round an email should do it.

Keep the tone pleasant and appreciative of those who do stay late when needed and that taking equivalent TOIL is fine, but make it clear that this isn’t a way of building up extra leave. Unless you want to put in place a flexi system of course.

Perhaps any toil should be recorded in Outlook diaries?

As an HR person currently investigating a case of flex time fraud I'd say that, whatever scheme you go with, don't be afraid to check up on timesheets. Be aware that people do indulge in theft of time, it's reasonable to keep tabs on what's going on.

Are people getting the work done? If so I'm not sure I see the problem.
I work somewhere massive and there are no set work hours and you're trusted to get on. If there's a meeting you need to attend at e.g. 4.30pm then you'll have to be there but otherwise come and go as you please. I'd never say I was taking a half day though, that's for holiday/lieu days and would need to be booked in.

If you think a couple of people are taking the piss then pull them up

You could point out that if they always wanted Friday afternoons off, that would need to be a formal request and a contractual change, as it would change their hours (and possibly what they earn, unless you allow compressed hours in the rest of the week.) But remember such requests can be declined if they don't suit the needs of the business.

I think that is what is at the base of this - what you eventually decide to do, whether going for a formal flexitime scheme or changes to contracted hours, or something less formal, that can only be done if the business isn't negatively impacted. As a general rule, more flexible arrangements tends to improve things, because people can deal with life stuff and outside commitments with less stress, but if you've got a couple who are taking the Mickey, that can build resentment in others, which will have a negative effect. And pretty much everyone knows who puts in the hours at work or not, so it won’t go unnoticed.