HR career help please?

[maz82]

Hi. I'm currently working in a market led company which has over 120 employees and no HR department. The concensious between my work colleagues is that our company needs one and no one can understand why this isn't in place as of yet. So this got me thinking. I've always had an interest in HR and have dealt with a few employment issues with my previous job. I'm going to apply to do my level 3 CIPD course and am going to approach my employers and ask if they will find me and then potentially make a HR position available or at least get something started. Problem is I'm not sure how to ask and what to say. Is there anyone working In HR that can give me some pointers or any help please?

You can certainly suggest it, but if I were them, and introducing an HR department for the first time which consisted of one person, I would not even consider hiring someone who is learning on the job. That person would be a first line of defence for the company against employment tribunals, lawsuits and serious personnel problems and I would either get an experienced seasoned all-rounder, or use an outsourced service as many companies do who are too small for an in-house dept.

If you want to make the case I'd look at how much an outsourced service would cost and see if you can demonstrate that you could do it cheaper and still manage risks effectively.

Agree with Countess.

120 staff is unusually large to have no internal HR presence. We find that once businesses get to about 50 or 60 staff they are usually then at the stage they need someone in-house. Sometimes sooner.

If they are going to appoint someone internally, an experienced HR Manager would be best, to set everything up, assess current practice/culture/procedures/issues and use his/her expertise and experience to do the necessary ‘catching up’ required. At that size of business, there will be inconsistencies, vulnerabilities and issues that will have crept in, no doubt.

If they don’t want to appoint a full time/part time HR Manager, they could either outsource it to a consultancy specialising in SMEs, or they could do a combination, where they have an internal lower-level person who is responsible for HR admin (there probably is someone already, possibly an office manager-type, that’s really common) but that person is able to access advice from an experienced professional externally.

From your own point of view, if you want to move into a career in HR, by far the most sensible thing to do is to look for work in an HR department in a bigger organisation, so that you can learn and observe how the function works, learn from more experienced professionals, learn about the annual cycle, learn about the various areas of work established HR departments deal with. You are not going to get any of that working on your own in an organisation without any current HR.

How have they managed without HR to date, maz Presume someone is currently doing core HR duties?

You need to consider what is currently being done and therefore your proposal would include the recommendation on how you address the gaps in:

• Recruitment, onboarding
• Payroll
• HR policy, advice, good practice, legislation
• staff exits

Etc

It's a good thought, because many SMEs come to a 'tipping point' where staff activity requires a dedicated HR team, when formally the volume of work might be feasible for an "Office Manager" type person.

Crikey, just seen 120 staff, wow!!

Exactly - that tipping point usually happens at a much earlier stage than 120 staff!

😆 flowery, goodness only knows how they're coping, that's madness!

They have people that take on some HR duties but they dont have a structured department. Recently in a meeting many people asked who they would go to if they needed to form a complaint etc about xxx. My partner had worked for this company over 14 years and they have been great with me do I really want to stay however mu current role doesn't suit and I have always wanted to go into HR but have not been able to afford to train up until now. I dont really want to leave this company u less i have to. The director of the company deals with most stuff. We have accounts department that deals with business accounts etc so they have managed to get by so far. I'm sure there is going to come a point where they will need to restructure and I want to try and be a part of it.

Sorry for spelling mistakes.

HR is a crucial element of a company with 120 employees. I'd be very surprised if they would appoint someone with no solid HR experience to head this up.

If they haven't had a team in place before and you haven't got experience then you're walking into an absolute minefield of a job! Imagine 120 being told they suddenly have an official HR Rep - you would be inundated with hundreds of enquiries within the first week and inevitably would make mistakes due to lack of experience (this isn't a dig - we all would do so if learning on the job) that could have serious legal ramifications.

You could always ask for a day a week working in the HR team (if they set one up!) to learn on the job in a responsible way, assisting with admin to start and progressing that way. You can say honestly that you know the company well etc They may well say no but no harm in asking.

You would be far better taking an entry level HR position elsewhere but of course I'm sure this would take a huge hit on your pay packet...

I'm honestly not trying to throw cold water on you, OP, but a company that is only just introducing "proper" in-house HR is extremely unlikely to fund you to learn on the job. That's something that only a company with an established in-house function can afford to do, financially and risk-wise. If you want to train and get experience in HR you are either going to have to fund it out of your own pocket and then look for an entry level role in a large org (and entry level roles in HR are extremely popular with graduates etc) or try to find a company offering HR apprenticeships.

Having you be the HR dept while you train or even straight after you get your qualification would open them up to massive risk. I say this not to hurt you but because it's the objection you will get if the management team is at all competent, so you have to be prepared to hear and counter it.

They don't need HR for 120 people tbh (HR Director here). Tiny company I'd imagine HR tasks can be split between other roles. Also as a newbie in HR you'd be much better to work fir some with HR experience in a bigger structure. Who will you learn from if you're the only one? Bad career move!

When I say they don't need it, im presuming they buy it in as needed. They don't need it as a permanent overhead and bau activity is managed in house split between other roles

I agree with others. I'm currently doing my Level 5 but worked as an HR Admin/Coordinator for 3 years previously and the only way I learnt things was from my manager and when stuff actually happened. From my experience, CIPD qualifications don't actually teach you much about day to day HR stuff that you'll need... I've just moved to an advisor position though and struggling a little bit with the confidence aspect of it without running everything past my manager but I guess that will come with time.

"I have always wanted to go into HR but have not been able to afford to train up until now. I dont really want to leave this company u less i have to. "

If you want to move into HR you're going to have to move -learning on the job is an absolutely crucial element of HR. The only way you moving into HR and staying where you are is really viable is if they bring in an HR Manager and you work alongside them doing HR admin etc.

120 is not a 'tiny' company in the slightest. We work with SMEs and it is extremely rare for us to come across a company that big with no internal HR at all - if a company wants to be a decent employer an internal office manager type who can handle HR admin but has no expertise doesn't cut the mustard once they get that big.

My DHs company didn’t have in house HR, and relied on unqualified members of staff. It was, of course, impossible as they grew as the admin staff knew too little to advise on legal HR issues and business growth. Out sourcing was not considered as they wanted someone to be a business partner and really understand their needs. The person recruited was a highly experienced HR professional and paid accordingly. No, there were no increased queries from staff because HR is a business management position. It’s not staff welfare. Staff were not unhappy but the business needed to manage its growth.

What might be a route OP, is to be an HR assistant. The company would have to decide upon this course of action and ensure that it’s suitable for the business. At your annual review, is it possible to discuss career progression for you in this field?

I work in HR. You learn from more experienced colleagues and seniors... how on earth will you learn how to do HR if you are the only one there?

OP you've had some excellent advice very here.

It's looking like you'll have to choose at some point between working solely at your current company and pursuing a professional HR career somewhere else.

Goodness knows how they're getting by without any specialist HR input at the moment... stuff happens and it's best to be ahead of it if possible!!

I think a lot of firms muddle through. It took me several years to persuade DH and his partners that their office manager wasn’t HR trained and couldn’t be expected to be up to speed with HR. I am MCIPD but I’m not employed by him! There were incidents and events which made it blatantly obvious they needed HR. Life for all has been so much better but many companies cost cut and don’t recognise the value of HR when they only see it as recruitment admin!

It's very easy not to see the value of HR if it is done well… It's main purpose really is to help people be happy at work and to help to avoid employee/employer conflict.

I do agree with what everyone is saying that being the sole HR person for the whole company would be too much as your first ever HR job, but it's not always that easy to find an entry level position in HR if you have no qualifications and no experience, particularly if you have other constraints like needing to be within a small geographic area or needing flexibility for childcare issues etc. Taking on some HR duties part-time within an existing job and getting funded for a qualification is many people's 'way in' to the profession.

If I was you I think I would probably ask them to fund or part-fund the CIPD qualification anyway (they can only say no) and ask if you can work maybe a couple of days a week doing HR admin and assisting whoever they bring in to head up an HR department. As others have said I think they really need either an experienced HR manager or to outsource to a specialist company to set up policies and procedures and to advise on any complex issues, there's probably all sorts of bad practices/issues that have been left unresolved if they've been muddling along without HR for this long, and as an inexperienced person with only your level 3 qualification, you would struggle to sort it all out. Trust me this is not an adverse comment on you, I am an experienced HR person and I would be pretty nervous being a sole HR person in a 120 person company with no previous HR manager in place....

The company may however go for the idea of part funding you to train in HR so that they have a successor lined up for the HR Manager and/or could plan on reducing their spend on the external company in the future. You might find from a career point of view that actually you want to move on to get more experience in a different company or within a bigger HR department before you feel ready to be a stand-alone HR manager but you would be in a much better position to apply for HR jobs with the qualification and experience than you are now, so it can't hurt to ask? But definitely do not agree to be their only HR person!

@Heartlake I'm assuming you don't work in HR. 'help people be happy at work' is not the purpose of HR. That's hilarious, 😂😂

Happy people are productive people, no?!