Redundant no consultation

[footballmumhum]

After 9 years with a business, I've been told my role is redundant and offered a settlement agreement.
I'm devastated as I love my job and colleagues, it works with the kids' school times, I've given my heart and soul and am currently TTC so need the maternity pay.
I was in shock when I was told (just called into a meeting) and just accepted what was happening. Was then sent the offer by email but haven't yet responded.
I haven't agreed to anything, it's just so sudden but everyone's been told I've gone and a new structure announced that I'm not in.
Can they do this? I thought I had to be offered other job options (which I'd take just for the maternity) but don't know if this is different because they've offered settlement.
I will see a solicitor but money is already right so a bit worried about spending.
Any help would be great. Thanks

You could ask them about alternative roles of you don’t want to accept the settlement agreement but I agree with pp, it sounds like they want you out, which is hard on you if you want to stay.

They should pay towards your legal fees if you accept the settlement agreement but this will probably be capped - does the email say what they would contribute toward your legal costs?

OP - prh47bridge seems to have up-to-date employment law experience. Here is some general information from Acas on settlement agreements.

m.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4395

To be honest, if they don't want me and have told everyone the new structure that I'm not in, then I don't want to be there. It's just the money concern really.

This thread has really helped clarify my thoughts. I think I just need to concentrate on a decent settlement.

On legal fees, they've mentioned paying for the agreement to be reviewed/signed off but nothing more than that and not specified amount. I assume it's money well spent though so I'll just suck it up if needs be.

@prh47bridge surely if OP isn't happy with the settlement being offered she can counter offer with what she would actually be happy with? It sounds to me like they want her out (sorry OP, but it does) so if this is the case, they are likely to accept the counter offer, or find her another role which is what she wants?

Shitty situation OP

Offer is a bit more than statutory but not much

Even if it's £10 more than statutory, I'd take the money and run.

They've done that by design, to ensure the Settlement Agreement gives you more than if they'd paid you statutory redundancy.

It's a shame your losing your job, but you need to think pragmatically, that if you go with the SA, it gives you breathing space to get another job.

Make sure they give a factual reference for your next employer, it quickens the process later down the line.

Make sure the wording is clear that it's an Ex gratis payment, as that is treated as tax free, as its non-contractual.

Make sure they agree to paying you £200-£300 for a solicitor to review the SA documentation and ensure the offer is fair and lawful.

Forget about the matter of consultation, if you are the only employee in this situation, consultation is advisory not mandatory. They've covered themselves by, as you've confirmed, offering you slightly more than they need to under statutory redundancy.

surely if OP isn't happy with the settlement being offered she can counter offer with what she would actually be happy with? It sounds to me like they want her out (sorry OP, but it does) so if this is the case, they are likely to accept the counter offer, or find her another role which is what she wants?

She can certainly counter offer but I would get a lawyer to handle the negotiations. I agree they want her out so it is unlikely they will find her another role. That doesn't necessarily mean they will agree to anything the OP requests. If she asks for too much they may simply decide to dismiss her and let her take it to tribunal. An experienced lawyer will deal with the negotiations and be able to guide the OP as to what she can reasonably expect.

they are likely to accept the counter offer, or find her another role which is what she wants?

Yes, that's a possibility, they could accept a counter offer, but the OP runs the risk that they lock down and say no, they've offered more than the statutory, that's it, then if the OP chooses not to accept the offer on the table, the only option is effectively "see you in court", which is arduous, stressful and will cost the OP likely the amount they've offering as the SA plus stress x lots.

iow, The reason they are doing this as a SA is to make the process quick, cover their bases and ensure it's legally defensible.

Xposted with you prh

Even if it's £10 more than statutory, I'd take the money and run.

You'd be an idiot! OP is in a really good negotiating position, (I got 6 months salary by negotiating...)

On legal fees, they've mentioned paying for the agreement to be reviewed/signed off but nothing more than that and not specified amount. I assume it's money well spent though so I'll just suck it up if needs be

If they've agree to pay legal fees, let your employer know which solicitor you will use, take the papers along and get them to advise you, and ask your solicitor to send their final bill direct to your employer, don't pay for it yourself. A solicitor will be well versed in all this this, they'll get paid, and you haven't had to outlay the money.

OP I'm really sorry that you're in this situation - it must be horrible.

I can't offer much advice about your current rights, but just to bolster your spirits, I was made redundant twice in the same industry in a decade and did well out of it.

The first time I was eventually taken back as a contractor on a far higher rate. The second time (with 2 DCs by then) I found a job within three months that paid almost double the salary.

Restructuring and redundancy are common in my industry and everyone knows everyone else, so even though I was seething both times, I tried to be charming and diplomatic about the whole thing 'in public' (and never a victim). I think it helped me.

Best of luck

Why is the OP "in a good negotiating position"??

If the employer was "paying them off" because the OP could prove they had been discriminated against, harassed or some other contravention of employment law, then maybe so.

But I'm sorry I do not see, based on the information given, on what basis they are in a particularly strong position. What sword of Damocles can the OP hang over them?

As I said, they could make a counter-offer via their solicitor, by all means but they have to decide what might motivate their employer to significantly up their offer. No harm in asking.

My employer (a FTSE 100 firm) paid my legal fees for my solicitor to look over my compromise agreement. I thought they were being generous but the solicitor said perfectly normal. The amount they pay is capped, but it covered it all. I walked away with plenty of tax free money and felt very fairly treated (had been planning to resign anyway). I think it usually means you should get more than statutory redundancy pay.

Why is the OP "in a good negotiating position"??

Because they've publicly announced she is being made redundant. If she rejects the agreement they then have to go through a formal consultation process which will be embarrassing, give the message to other employees that their employment rights can be trampled over. They clearly want her and the others gone, rather than moved to new roles, and by going straight to offering a compromise agreement, rather than a formal redundancy process, they've stayed quite clearly they will pay her off in order to achieve that goal.

Thanks all! Sowing and FiveTwoFaster, thanks for sharing, that's really encouraging

@titchy You're vastly overestimating how much an employer cares what their employees think of them!

Regardless. Employer has said they want them out and are prepared to pay over the odds in order to bypass due process. Employer has been an idiot by publicly announcing it before any of the five had actually agreed to the settlement!

Also agree with prh I work in HR and conduct without prejudice conversations leading to settlement agreements you have the option of not accepting but what will happen is they will just put you through consultation anyway and you'll be left with their normal redundancy payment.

Get your lawyer to review the settlement perhaps propose a higher figure

@titchy Who has the employer made themselves look an idiot to, and how does that convert to the OP getting a bigger payout?

Call ACAS for advice

If you are in UK check www.gov.uk to confirm what the statutory redundancy payment is. Hopefully, your company will offer you a bigger payment. Ask for everything in writing like payment amount ( under 30k) is tax free, when you will receive the payment, your last day of work. Importantly, ask them to confirm what and who will be the contact for future references. Get your CV updated. Do you have any contacts you can use for a new job. The day after you are made redundant, apply for contributions based job seekers allowance / Universal credit, this cannot be back dated so apply immediately. Good luck

@Bluntness100, I agree completely with @prh47bridge. It’s probably wise not to shoot down other posters when there are others on this forum, including qualified employment lawyers, that clearly know far more about this topic than you do.

OP, as PPs have correctly stated, an employer is entitled to have a conversation around terminating an employees employment under a settlement agreement. Those conversations aren’t open or admissible in court, even if the agreement falls through. As far as the law is concerned, the conversation didn’t happen. The only exception would be if you were told that you had to sign the agreement or you WOULD be made redundant, rather than being told that a settlement agreement was being offered as an alternative to undergoing a consultation process, at which point it is LIKELY you would be made redundant. If they said to you that you have to sign or be sacked, the rules don’t apply (but chances are you’d never be able to prove it).

They need to specify a contribution towards legal fees in the agreement - your solicitor will insist on this (or at least, they should). The minimum they usually pay is £250 plus VAT but that won’t get you any additional advice or negotiation funds. You’d probably have to pay that out of your own pocket.

Ultimately if you reject the agreement then they will probably start a formal consultation from scratch and go through the motions. Unfortunately in a restructure situation it’s harder to show that such a dismissal is unfair, as it’s generally accepted that employers are allowed to restructure as they see fit. On that basis, I would seriously consider accepting a settlement agreement. Your solicitor will be able to tell you whether the amount of money on offer is fair or not.

Good luck.

Please listen to the advice of @prh47bridge OP

SA’s have their place in a workplace and whilst not nice to receive, they shorten a horrible process which can sometimes be long, drawn out and with the same outcome (exit). If handled correctly by the employer, they’ll have put aside a figure additional to redundancy, to pay you off. That won’t be the figure you’ve been given. Somehow you need to reach that figure through negotiations. It’s a dance between the two parties.

Get a solicitor (a good one, search recommendations from people in your area). They’ll negotiate for you.

I’ll be honest, the employer may play hard ball and not budge on their original offer. I have been that person because I’ve had simple cases where I know we could do the normal exit via redundancy relatively easily, so it would be no issue to refuse the amount put forward (by employees solicitor) and state the process will commence day after the deadline to agree it or not. This results, as others have said, in statutory redundancy payout only which you want to avoid.

BUT, I’ve also been negotiating when we want the person removed from our business; and it’ll be a drawn out process, damaging for morale, high risk of unfair or constructive dismissal etc, if they remain beyond the SA process (normally 10days) so have negotiated but made sure the person has been given a fair settlement so that they take it without a fuss.

Aside from money, it’s worth pushing for other things such as: glowing reference (you can write it yourself), employee outplacement service (c£500 with a decent HR consultant to help you via coaching, cv review, job search etc) missing bonus that you may have achieved, holiday accrual correctly calculated. Decent solicitors will pick up on these aspects.

Sorry you’re going through this. I can recommend a solicitor if you need one. She’s ours for our company but she has provided advice to people I know (as employees) who have had SA’s issues.

Thanks a lot! Snuggle that is really helpful and a dance is a perfect description! It's so hard wanting to make sure you get the best deal but not wanting to push your luck and end up with less. Plus not damage relationships!

I've made my peace with leaving now and if I'm lucky enough to fall pregnant, we'll find a way to manage. Trying to find the positives and enjoy more time with the kids.

Thanks again.

I had a similar situation, contractor brought into the business, mine the only role to be made redundant, very quick process, my company paid for the solicitor advice, I had a settlement agreement, not massive, but full redundancy and some paid garden leave to get me off the site asap. It is not the role of the solicitor to negotiate the financial settlement, I used ACAS, they intervened but were told that the offer was firm and final, if I didn't accept it I could lose this and still be made redundant and would have to go through a tribunal to prove unfair dismissal etc. I took it, not because it was fair, but because I was so shocked and devastated I could not bear going to tribunal and prolong the process for maybe up to a year?I also did not want this to reflect badly on me when job searching. The whole process was horrendous, it has deeply scarred me emotionally. Good luck , take the money and run !