Mixed changing room

[cakedup]

My friend works in chain coffee shop. There is only one changing room.

One time she arrived and the men were already changing in the room so she waited until they finished and ended up being 3 minutes late for her shift. The manager told her if she was late again she'd get the sack. She told her she could have got changed in the toilets but these were very busy with customers. So the manager told her she is an adult, don't make a fuss and just get changed with the men!

This would be especially uncomfortable for her given the fact two of the men there are pestering her and she is not interested. Well one of them is no longer pestering her but giving her the cold shoulder because she rejected his advances.

This can't be right can it? I suppose they can ask her to arrive in plenty of time to allow for the changing room to be free but she is going straight from another job to this one so it's not always possible.

Sorry, my second paragraph was to TheInvestigator

She shouldn't be penalised if there is a policy of no uniform outside the premises. If that is the policy, then they must provide her a time to use it at the start of her shift (or just before) and stagger the times so men at one time and women at another time. Neither sex should be penalised if they are required to change at work and have to wait their turn. But if that's the case here, it's the manager at fault and, as I said in my first post, she needs to raise it with the area manager or HR to clarify.

If they are allowed to have their uniforms on before getting to work and the changing room is just courtesy, then she needs to arrive in plenty of time if she wants to use it. If it's busy then it's busy and she needs to change somewhere else or be quick so she isn't late for her shift.

Yes, I guess so. It's just the 'changing room as a courtesy' still needs to be single sex and that means waiting if the opposite sex is using it, not 'just getting changed with the men'.

But yes, I guess she just needs to get there early enough that even if she has to wait she starts work on time. Sounds tricky if she is coming straight from another job.

The manager sounds horrible and unreasonable.

Was on a whatsapp chat earlier with this friend and also another friend who used to work at a different restaurant and said she had the same problem. Other friend says she had to either change in the same room as men or in a single toilet cubicle shared with other men for which there was often a queue. She says she would refuse to get there 15 - 20 mins early, unpaid for, because "they have not accommodated for women".

Original friend is not sure if she is allowed to wear her uniform outside of work but will ask them tomorrow. Apologies, I misunderstood, she's not coming from another job, she starts her shift in the afternoon but rarely leaves from home to go straight there i.e. she'll be doing other things first (meeting friends, shopping, taking part in hobbies).

She did give herself longer than 3 minutes to change - she was 3 minutes late for her shift after waiting for the men to finish using the room.

This isn't a sexism problem. This isn't a company putting the men first. TheInvestigator but in the case of both of these friends, the men never minded changing in front of women. I think we all know women are more likely to be objectified/leered at/perved upon etc than the other way round. Especially as 2 of these men HAVE been pestering her, so no, she doesn't want to get undressed in front of them nor does she want to see them walking around in their pants.

I used to have a job with a uniform. I usually didn’t travel there from home but from uni.

I just changed in the railway station/ bus station toilets. It was my responsibility to arrive on time, in uniform. There was a small staff room - little more than a cupboard really where we could leave our bags. Some chose to change in there.

I really don’t see the issue. Just arrive on time already changed.

Just wear a vest top that goes under the uniform, and cycling shorts-leggings too if she's that modest. anniehm It has nothing to do with modesty. She doesn't mind getting undressed in front of female staff. She does mind getting undressed in front of male staff, why do you think this is? And why should she (or you!) have to faff about with another layer of clothing?

What will she do if the company does away with a changing room? It sounds like she can wear the uniform outside but chooses not to so they don't have to provide anywhere to change.

If there is only 1 room and she refuses to get there early in order to change what is her solution? Ban the men from changing? Insist that the men arrive early so that she can arrive minutes before the shift? Neither of those is fair either are they?

If she chooses to not wear her uniform to get there then I suppose she is making it her responsibility to find a place to change.

She needs to speak to a manager to see if a solution can be found, that doesn't include men and women changing together but needs to understand the limits of the company's responsibility.

They have accommodated for both men and women by giving them a room to change in. If she was there first, the men wouldn’t be allowed to change with her because she could just lock the door, or stick a door wedge behind it whilst she is changing.

Managers often say or ask for the wrong thing because they want everything done quickly; they are wrong. But she needs to got to HR to clarify what the procedure should be.

Is she meant to arrive in her uniform and ready to work? If yes, then they do not need to provide her with a changing room. She needs to get there first, wait her turn or use the toilets but she cannot be late due to choosing to change at work.

Or is she meant to change on the premises? If that is the case, then they need to allow her time to do that when men are not in the changing room.

The issue is the manager cutting corners for expedience, so she needs to check company policy in uniform outside of work and then she can react accordingly. But if it is her choice when to change, then she can’t turn up late for her shift and blame changing facilitates.

I haven't read the full thread but I can see from the first page or so that CosmicCanary is being repeatedly shouted down for saying that there should be separate changing facilities for men and women. However, she is pretty much correct when it comes to the workplace. The relevant regulations (The Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992) state that the changing rooms in a workplace must, "include separate facilities for, or separate use of facilities by, men and women where necessary for reasons of propriety". These regulations do not apply to public changing rooms for swimming pools and the like so citing what happens there is not helpful or relevant.

The OP's friend should not be expected to change with the men. There should be times when women can use the changing room without men being allowed in. There should equally be times when men can use the changing room without women being allowed in. Her employer appears to be breaking the law.

Prh47, that's exactly what everyone has said. But it only applies if the company have a policy that staff must change into uniform on the premises. If that is the case, then they need to allocate separate times for males and females to use the changing facilities.

If that is not the rule, and they can come to work already dressed then changing facilities are not a requirement. They can set aside a room if they want too, but if she chooses to risk changing at work and the room is in use, she can't demand that she be allowed to be late to her shift so she can change because she should have come to work already dressed.

The company aren't breaking the law. The manager tried too. And, as said in my first post, she needs to go to the area manager to clarify whether or not they are required to change on-site or are meant to arrive ready to work.

As I say, I didn't read the whole thread. Initially some posters were telling CosmicCanary that she was completely wrong and people were citing swimming pools and the like as examples to show that a business did not need to supply separate changing rooms.

You are correct that the regulation re changing facilities only applies if the employee has to wear special clothing for work and they cannot, for reasons of health or propriety, be expected to change in another room.

The employer is responsible for the manager's actions. In broad terms, if a manager breaks the law, the employer is breaking the law.

She will find out today whether or not she is allowed to come already dressed in her uniform. It seems no-one actually does this.

She did say when she gets there first she gets changed with one hand on the door to stop the men from entering.

Previous to this job worked in a similar establishment where the men would wait if she was in the changing room, would NOT get undressed in front of her, and at the end of her shift would offer her the changing room first. Aside from the law, there is such a thing as common decency.

Apart from the changing issue, is your friends taking steps to report the 2 men pestering her

The statement canary made was this;

Sex segregation is enshrined in law when it comes to changing and toileting facilities.

With no limiting factors like in the workplace, or if required by the workplace etc. What she said in that statement was easily misntereprated and wrong. Segregation means keeping everything separate; so having 2 separate toilets and 2 separate changing rooms. That's wrong.

My comment about swimming pools, and about only actually needing one toilet and one changing room which can be shared but used separately was to draw attention to the fact that the way she phrased her comment made it wrong.

I know, which is why I said she was "pretty much correct when it comes to the workplace" which is, after all, what this thread is about. But she wasn't entirely correct with respect to the workplace and, by not limiting her statement to the workplace, she was wrong. I was trying to clarify. I wasn't intending to have a go at anyone.

Apart from the changing issue, is your friends taking steps to report the 2 men pestering her No Siriismyonlyfriend she is not.
Young women in these types of workplaces get pestered all the time. If her manager thinks she should get changed in front of men and not make a fuss, then she'll probably think my friend should take the 'flirting' as a compliment. One of the men has brushed against her purposefully a couple of times, winking at her as he does so. Her word against his.

If she got there before the men she would have the changing room to herself, maybe men dont want to have to share with a woman either.