Questionable practices goings on.....

[CherryTreesAndBumblebees]

Advice needed please....

There is a huge restructure happening at my work and I’ve applied for voluntary redundancy as it’s become a toxic environment.

I’ve been off the last few days and most of my colleagues in other departments have now had their voluntary redundancy requests turned down as their knowledge is “too important to lose” but they’ve not been offered another job, just told to apply for roles but that there is no guarantee a job will be offered and that they’re still at risk of redundancy!

It’s all very controversial and I’m now worried my request will be declined too when I have my meeting next week....do any of you wise people on the internet have any advice?

This all seems to be very contradictory and I’ve no idea of my rights if I also end up in this situation

and for anyone who can help!!

It’s quite common for applications for voluntary redundancy to be declined- if a business needs to lose 10 people out of 20 and the 10 most valuable and best-performing individuals apply to go, it’s understandable for the business to decline their application (although keeping good staff against their will is rarely a good long term decision).

They can’t guarantee the declines applicants a job, because if they do that, the other affected employees will be able to say the selection process was unfair and decisions were made before selection was completed. Therefore they need to technically remain at risk along with their colleagues.

In terms of your rights, you have no entitlement to voluntary redundancy. If you don’t get it, your rights are to be part of a fair and transparent selection process, to be consulted on that, and to be given the right to representation and to appeal your dismiss if you are made redundant.

What selection process are they planning to use for compulsory redundancies, do you know?

Thank you for the reply, very helpful!

It just seems odd that an employer can turn you down for voluntary redundancy to then make you redundant on a compulsory basis.

All I know about the next steps are that we need to apply for a job and go through a full recruitment process

Things to look out for:

Is your employer being transparent in terms of potential roles being made redundant. If 20 or more, they must enter into a consultation period. Even if fewer than 20 roles will be eliminated, they still open themselves to risk if they fail to consult. The consultation period doesn't necessarily end in full agreement on who stays and who goes, it's about your employer engaging with the workforce, giving you reasonable information about their plans and intentions, timelines for the process, and importantly to give you as an employee an opportunity to ask questions.

Here is a gov.uk web resource which hopefully helps:

www.gov.uk/staff-redundant/redundancy-consultations

The fact you feel it is controversial and questionable, suggests you may not fully understand the process and your rights, which is not your fault at all, in fact it is your employer's responsibility to be supportive and informative in explaining your rights at all stages in the process.

Another thing to remember, as flowery rightly points out, your employer won't and can't announce final decisions until the full process of selection has completed, so everyone knows at roughly the same time. Don't listen to hear-say. It doesn't matter what other people say they've been told. Your employer is far more likely to say "we need you, you're valued", why wouldn't they say that, they want to keep everyone in their jobs for business stability (not least of all when Brexit is bringing massive uncertainty to business) until they decide they don't need some staff. It's very common practice when restructuring. It isn't unlawful. They are just "keeping their options open" for the good of the business.

Yes all that is reasonable although it's difficult when you are in the process. Once they've reviewed all the voluntary applications they'll have a better idea of what compulsory redundancies they need to make. I don't see anything dodgy.

The people who get turned down for voluntary redundancy will not be selected for compulsory redundancy. They remain "at risk" because the employer needs them to be there as the preferred candidate for the competitive selection processes during which the other candidates will be selected for redundancy.

If you can afford to sacrifice the redundancy package, just resign. It will be a lot less stressful all round.

Don't resign that's terrible advice, unless you have secured another role. It will affe what bene you can claim if unemployed of you've left voluntarily. Why would you resign just because redundancies are being made? Could happen in any business. Bad advice!

”It just seems odd that an employer can turn you down for voluntary redundancy to then make you redundant on a compulsory basis.“

It’s highly unlikely they will be made compulsorily redundant. But people who are made compulsorily redundant have to be dismissed as part of a fair process, and clearly if your employer has guaranteed jobs to people who have been rejected for voluntary redundancy, those who are subsequently made compulsorily redundant will have a claim for unfair dismissal, as a fair selection process won’t have been followed.

And yes, the advice to resign is bonkers. If you want to go, apply for voluntary redundancy. If you don’t get it, wait and see if you are made compulsorily redundant, and if not, and you still want to go, then resign.

This is all so helpful, thanks!

Fingers crossed I’ll get the VR at my meeting next week but if not I’ll be sticking it out, whilst looking elsewhere :)

Well if more apply for vr than are needed to lose they will not all be potentially redundant. Recruitment costs money.