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NHS and sickness

11 replies

Lostlily · 27/01/2019 20:35

Anyone here work for the NHS?
I find the sickness management really unfair. The whole being one. 'Noc' makes you feel bad for being unwell when I see so many taking the absolute
It makes me angry
I'm off sick at the moment and feel really guilty but I'm just not well enough

OP posts:
maxelly · 28/01/2019 13:37

Apologies, not sure that I understand your post fully. Can you say more about what is happening to you, and what do you mean by being one 'NOC'? If you are genuinely too unwell to be at work at the moment but are making every effort to get well and return to work as soon as you can then you have nothing to feel guilty or worried about.

I did work in NHS HR for many years and my experience was that there was a bit of an obsession with 'consistency' in the management particularly of frequent short term absence, which led to quite rigid policies being applied usually based around Bradford scores or a similar methodology, and an insistence on managers having lots of informal meetings and giving out informal warnings about sickness. On the one hand I can see the desire for consistency and a robust approach in such a large and cash strapped institution, but on the other I don't necessarily think the NHS always takes the most effective approach, the 'chancer' types are not stupid and will work out exactly how much time off they can take without hitting the 'trigger' points and without fail be ill for exactly that time every time, whereas the odd person who had some bad luck and multiple episodes of real illness was genuinely upset to be 'called in' about their sickness (although applied fairly an informal meeting shouldn't be seen or felt to be a punishment, but of course this depends on the manager handling things sensitively and supportively which isn't always the case). I'm not sure the guidelines around disability and allowances being made for disability related sickness were ever properly/consistently applied either. So yes I think there is room for improvement there.

On the plus side I don't think in my whole NHS career I ever saw a case of true injustice, e.g. someone being given a formal warning or dismissed for their attendance where they didn't need to be. I can count on one hand the number of cases pushed through to final stages over frequent short term absences (and these weren't chancers being disciplined for skiving, these were people that due to genuine health conditions weren't coping at work, and the vast majority were supported either down an ill health retirement route, or into another job/different hours that they coped with better). I would say it was far more common for a situation where attendance was poor to have been allowed to go for years and years without any real action being taken, than managers being 'trigger happy' and trying to discipline people over genuine short term issues.

Long term absence it was more common to see formal cases but again mostly people either returned to work once they were better or took ill health retirement or chose to leave of their own accord. When it comes to long term absence I would say the NHS processes and policies are much better and are usually very supportive - of course there comes a point when a decision has to be made and the person needs to either come back to work or move on somehow, but I would say the NHS is much more patient in waiting for that point (years sometimes) than the private or third sector where they might be hassling for a return date within weeks of the person being off...

Lostlily · 30/01/2019 09:24

I mean, there are people who go off sick for months and months after a minor event or with stress. They get meetings and help and it feels like 'they' take charge of the situation while the rest of the teams struggle to over their absence and workload.
Then there is some like myself, who in the last year- I had four days off January 2018 with a nasty chest infection that I caught at work, I was the third staff member in a row to go down with it. Then in the summer I had ONE day off with bad period pains and feeling generally exhausted as we'd been so short staffed. We have been four nurses down and we've all been working like dogs to cover the vacancies!
Now, it's January the following year and I have pnemonia. We have had three patients on the ward with it and three other staff go off with chest infections. I have been off for one week and so poorly but now, because thats three episodes of sickness within a 12 month period I am on a 'noc' which is apparently a monitoring tool because of my frequent sickness 😦 It really frustrates me as I am genuinely unwell and two of the three illness have come dinrectly from work!

OP posts:
4strings · 30/01/2019 13:00

Completely standard everywhere.

maxelly · 30/01/2019 15:11

I see. I do agree that it can feel like long term sickness management is all about supporting the person whereas short term feels more punitive. Unfortunately that's the side effect of treating everyone exactly the same regardless of circumstances...

However (whilst I am not familiar with this 'noc' tool) it sounds like you are on the informal monitoring stage, so whilst I'm sure it does feel uncomfortable and your illness has been 100% genuine, you are not actually having any action taken against you or formal warnings or anything, so providing you don't take any more sick leave then you'll be fine...

itswinetime · 30/01/2019 15:18

I had four days off January 2018 with a nasty chest infection that I caught at work, I was the third staff member in a row to go down with it

We have had three patients on the ward with it and three other staff go off with chest infections.

I'm sure this isn't going to go down well and it's not the point of the thread I know but your ward needs to look into it's infection control and ppe policies that's seems like a really high right of people coming down with infections from patients.

Bombardier25966 · 30/01/2019 15:30

A noc is a notice of concern, essentially the first stage of the disciplinary process. It's normal process when someone has a specified level of sickness.

Stress is a valid reason for sickness, and a minor event to you may be significant to somebody else. I wouldn't be so judgemental to others.

Lostlily · 01/02/2019 09:57

Bombardier25966
I'm not being judgemental, when I wrote the above post I had somebody specific in mind, knowing that person and the reason, it was minor and made into something much bigger to justify being off sick long term. That same person had just come to the end of the probation period by ONE WEEK and then went off sick, on up looking at their previous post within the NHS they did exactly the same there too. I find behaviour like this irresponsible and unprofessional knowing the impact it has on the ward and other staff. It's just not fair.

I have just got out of three days in hospital where I had confirmed pnemonia.
I initially posted because I felt frustrated with the system.
Thank you all for your responses

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vdbfamily · 01/02/2019 10:08

I am an NHS manager and agree that the formal sickness management policy is very unfair to staff members catching bugs from work. However, it is there to give the NHS a chance to manage out anyone who pulls regular sickies for no reason and because you have to apply policy consistently, everyone gets caught up in that. As a manager, I have some discretion in whether I move from formal to stage one, and can extend the monitoring period for longer if I give HR a valid reason. I also explain to staff that the HR letters for each stage are very formal so they are not shocked when they get them. I would say that about 50% of my team are currently on the informal monitoring stage!!

Lostlily · 01/02/2019 10:25

vdbfamiky
Thank you for that post it was very helpful.
I think it's so difficult to protect yourself from catching things at work when you are nursing poorly people. Personally my patients are often mobile and physically and mentally unwell which makes infection control very difficult.
My manager is very supportive and knows I don't take advantage, it's just frustrating when you see it on an all too regular basis.

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Polarbearflavour · 01/02/2019 11:12

The NHS is like that. I used to a nurse. I had a colleague collapse on the ward with a kidney infection who was then admitted. She was asked by her manager when she went into stage one of the formal process, how she was going to ensure it didn’t happen again?

Another colleague was in the process after being off sick following an assault by a patient.

swingofthings · 02/02/2019 07:50

Remember that the system is not personal. It has been put in place to introduce a better monitoring mechanism to pick up those who indeed abused the system.

Systems have to apply to everyone the same hence appearing unfair to those who are genuinely ill and dedicated to their job. However, getting a notice doesn't mean in anyway that managers think badly of you. It means that it triggered them ensuring that you are ok/not taking sickness days when you are not ill.

A notice is just that, it is not a judgement of your dedication. I know its hard but try not to take personally or assume it means people are thinking badly of you as a result, let alone that it could trigger any dismissal at this point.

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