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Original poster

Urgent advice - can anyone help?

69 replies

FlipFlapBat · 12/01/2019 15:36

I’ve been working at my company for 9 years and have to give 6 months notice which I am planning to give Monday.

I finished a course 19 months ago and have to pay back the fee if I leave within 24 months. Including my notice period I will leave 25 months after it.

While I have to give 6 months notice my employer only has to give me 2 weeks notice.

When I hand in my notice can they say fine don’t work the 6 months, we want you to go in 2 weeks thus forcing me to payback the £10k course fee?

OP posts:
AnnieOH1 · 12/01/2019 15:41

Unless something major has changed since I last dealt with employment law, your employer would need to give you 9 weeks notice at this point. More information here:

m.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4096

Additionally training repayments are usually pro-rata - eg 100% if you left after 6 months, 50% at 12 months etc.

Original poster
FlipFlapBat · 12/01/2019 16:00

Even them giving me 9 weeks notice wouldn’t be enough though.

My contract also states that training costs don’t depreciate and I have to pay what it costs the public not what the company paid (they had the place free of charge).

OP posts:
Ragevibration · 12/01/2019 16:07

I would be interested to see how this would all stand up in a court of law as none of it is reasonable is it??

You must give six months notice but they only have to give you two weeks?

A TWO YEAR training pay back clause with no depreciation?! Did they get any benefit out of you doing the training?!

Original poster
FlipFlapBat · 12/01/2019 17:54

They did benefit but so did I. The training was offered by a partner for fre but has a value of £10k although that is subjective.

OP posts:
daisychain01 · 12/01/2019 19:07

While I have to give 6 months notice my employer only has to give me 2 weeks notice

Do you have a written contract of employment in which it states the above?

If you resign then it's the 6 months' notice they have to abide by if that is what's written in your contract of employment. They don't get to pick and choose to suit themselves. They can't just dismiss you if you have tendered your resignation according to your contract, and state in writing by letter or email that you will leave on [date 6 months from your resignation letter]. That's how it works.

flowery · 12/01/2019 19:45

If they wanted to dismiss you they’d have to give you 9 weeks’ notice not two. But to dismiss you they’d have to have a valid reason for doing so and have gone through a reasonable and fair procedure.

Original poster
FlipFlapBat · 12/01/2019 21:05

My work has been excellent and I have achieved very good results. The contract says I must give 6 months notice. If they wish to dismiss me they only have to give 2 weeks.

My concern is I hand in my notice and they say right go in two weeks and charge me for the training.

OP posts:
Original poster
FlipFlapBat · 12/01/2019 21:07

Would anyone mind if I PM them the exact clause? I want to hand in my notice Monday and will seek legal advice but won’t have time to do so before handing in my notice. I won’t rely on advice and will seek separate legal console I’m just in a bit of a flap and as it is the weekend there is no where to turn.

OP posts:
AlexanderHamilton · 12/01/2019 21:10

Flowery as always is correct. With your length of service they can’t dismiss you at all without either going through a disciplinary or proving that your job is redundant and there are processes to go through for both.

AlexanderHamilton · 12/01/2019 21:11

Contracts can not trump UK employment law.

ThreeFish · 12/01/2019 21:15

My understanding is that if you tender your notice properly in accordance with your contract, and your employer then decides not to allow you to work that notice, they can’t then charge you for training costs that would not have been due if they had allowed you to work proper notice. It’s their requirement to go early iyswim.

Threaten them with court to test an unfair contractural decision if it comes to it. I’d think you have the strong grounds.

Bagadverts · 12/01/2019 21:18

The nine weeks is a legal minimum based on the years you have worked there. All employees are entitled to statutory notice (unless dismissed for gross misconduct). This overrides what is in your contract.

As you have been employed for two years you could claim unfair dismissal if your employer dismisses you unfairly.

I only volunteer for cab so can’t give more info on employment law, but maybe others can.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/leaving-a-job/dismissal/check-if-your-dismissal-is-fair/

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/leaving-a-job/dismissal/your-notice-period-during-dismissal/

TheHodgeoftheHedge · 12/01/2019 21:22

Also an employer cannot dismiss you after you’ve handed in your notice unless they have cause to dismiss you eg gross misconduct.

ThreeFish · 12/01/2019 21:28

And they still have to pay you the 6 months notice they didn’t allow you to take.

Singletomingle · 12/01/2019 21:28

I'm not an expert but if you hand your notice in then they tell you to leave with 2 weeks notice they are terminating your employment in which case you won't have to pay a penny.

RandomMess · 12/01/2019 21:30

Presumably the fee repayment is stated in your contract that it's if you leave not if they make you redundant or dismiss you...

Original poster
FlipFlapBat · 12/01/2019 21:40

No it states if they terminate my employment for any reason I have to pay it back in full.

OP posts:
ThreeFish · 12/01/2019 21:44

But if you properly hand your notice in first (and you’re not under investigation or pending disciplinary), then have no reason to terminate your employment. They can tell you to just work 2 weeks, but that’s garden leave and they still owe you six months pay for your notice period and no fee repayment.

ChikiTIKI · 12/01/2019 21:47

Surely the agreement that you pay back course fees only applies when YOU want to leave. If you leave after the timeframe then you don't pay it back. If THEY want you to leave before, then it's their loss and you don't pay them for the course fees.

That's how it worked when I was made redundant anyway.

Original poster
FlipFlapBat · 12/01/2019 21:59

No the term states clearly if they terminate then I’m liable to pay.

I’m not under disciplinary, I just think when I resign they will want me out. I didn’t realise they would have to pay me to the end of my notice period?

OP posts:
AlexanderHamilton · 12/01/2019 22:00

Absolutely they have to pay you.

2cats2many · 12/01/2019 22:04

They can't just get rid of you. They need to have a valid reason and go through the proper process. If they want you off site during your notice period, they will need to pay you gardening leave, or negotiate a shorter notice period. If they did that, I assume that you would want to factor in to the negotiation not paying back the course fee.

daisychain01 · 13/01/2019 03:26

I didn’t realise they would have to pay me to the end of my notice period?

That was my point above. They set the terms and conditions of your employment and you have both entered into that contract willingly. They can't shift the goalposts to suit themselves, that's breach of contract.

As @flowery rightly points out, by law because you have >2 years' employment rights, they must have a valid reason to dismiss you for it to be the 9 weeks notice. Given that you are tendering your resignation, if it went to a Tribunal the likelihood is they will consider the dismissal as retaliation triggered by you signalling your formal intention to leave, and that is breach of contract because they have not acted reasonably (ie if they sack you but haven't given you fair opportunity to right the wrongs of their spurious performance issues, then they are skating on non-existent ice!).

Just to be on the safe side, I would send your resignation electronically because it has a nice digital stamp on it to prove authenticity of when you tendered your resignation. With that much money at stake, and if you're thinking they may pull a fast one, then if you have it digitally recorded (plus bcc yourself to your personal email account at the same time) then you have better evidence than a piece of paper that they can deny all knowledge of.

Original poster
FlipFlapBat · 13/01/2019 08:39

@daisychain01 They set the terms and conditions of your employment and you have both entered into that contract willingly.

But the terms of my contract are that they only give 2 weeks notice whereas I have to give 6 months.

Incidentally I can also not work in the same industry for 12 months ... I do feel there are some very punative clauses. I am actually not going to a new role in the same industry so I’m not breaking it but I am sad not to be and hope to in the future (my new role will be a 12 month maternity cover post).

OP posts:
flowery · 13/01/2019 09:06

”But the terms of my contract are that they only give 2 weeks notice whereas I have to give 6 months.”

As has been said, a contractual term can not override statutory minimums, so if statutory minimum notice is more than the contractual notice, the statutory notice of 9 weeks will apply. That makes no difference to the notice you have to give.

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