Baby and work expecting overnight trips - how?!

[Northernbeachbum]

My work expects us to do about 5 overnight (sometimes 2 night) trips away per year and we're not paid extra or given time back for it. Im going back to work soon,we have no family locally and all friends have their own children or do not drive so there will be no one who can pick up DS at all, between DP and i we've used holiday to cover some nursery to save money and there is no way he would be able to get out of work early. Where do i stand with saying "actually i cant do that"? They're, in my opinion, not even that worth while trips, basically team building galavanting (fun, but I'd rather be actually doing my job!)

Somebody qualified/professional advice will hopefully come along soon, but this was me too- though I was contractor status, so it’s not compulsory and you can simply say ‘no I can’t attend’ if it’s not a contracted part of your job or say an expectation around targets? For staff away day/training I suppose you’ll need to be available for at least one or two, especially if it was industry relevant training or mandatory for your grade, but if it’s impossible due to your family situation you may need to negotiate a flexible work pattern for your return date. For what it’s worth, I actually left the job that had an expectation of longer hours and travel as we couldn’t make it work, with no family close by either. I know several parents who’ve changed employers due to expectation of travel/overnights that they couldn’t make work around family life. Good luck trying to sort the situation.

Often it is training, but nothing that i couldn't catch up on easily. My employer claims to be family friendly so it will be interesting to see how it goes. The trips usually include a short flight so its not like i can just go for a day either.

I thing long term job hunting may be needed but i do enjoy my job so I'd rather do my best to stay if possible as i cant imagine a better job being available to me

Thank you for your perspective @applesandpears

If they’re family friendly on paper, then hopefully an honest conversation before you return might be all that’s needed. Hope so for you, as returning to a job that you enjoy and works well generally around your family life, is worth hanging on to these days!

nanny or nursery + au pair is what we did when dc were tiny.
that and dh and I tag teaming.

Why would your dh need to leave work early? Can’t he just pick the children up from nursery? The only difference is a few times a year he’d be doing the evening and overnight solo.

If that’s impossible then cm/ au pair/ nanny is the way to go, as that’s more flexible for drop off and pick up times

He doesnt finish til 8pm then has a 45min commute, he will do drop offs and me pick ups. Sadly a nanny or au pair is out of our financial range. We also live in a very rural area so wouldn't be attractive to an au pair

Think it’ll need to be an occasional babysitter who can do the nursery pick up and babysit til your dh gets home. That should be doable as you’ll have notice of the occasions you’ll need them. You may be rural but you’ve obviously got a day nursery within striking distance so it’s worth sounding out the nursery workers (they may well be keen for the extra money) or even other parents who use the nursery.
It’s quite normal to not be paid extra if you’re salaried and it’s part of your job to travel/ have extra training. In your shoes I would look at the babysitter option... that’s what it is really, just with the pick up bit too

It sounds like Op will be able to manage it (with some difficulty) but it’s annoying if the events take up overnights and are of little value. Not sure what a single parent would do. When you say “work expects” is it a contractural thing? Are there no others with small dc?

Ill see about nursery staff, its a drive for them so will see what the situation is.

Ive not looked at my contract to be honest as its saved on my work laptop which theyve taken back while im off. I dont believe anyone else in my team has the same issues, those with children all seem to have family locally.

My dh has to take annual leave when I have to do things like this. We just have to save annual leave for child being ill and cover ing work issues. No family or friends. Only way we can do it.

No family "locally" - but family who might cover once or twice a year? My parents or my MIL often travelled up for childcare we couldn't cover between us.

Plus - it's really important that your DH asks for flexible accommodation to his work schedule, not just you, and that you both don't leave yourselves so overstretched with no annual leave left because your baby WILL get sick and need you both to take time off work, so you need to plan for that.

Even once back at work, with a breastfed non sleeping one year old I would have really struggled to be away overnight.

We did it with a nanny but DH would aim to come home early on nights I was away and vice-versa.

If you don't need a regular nanny then a babysitter who will work late afternoons/evenings until your DH gets home from work.

I've never been paid extra for overnight travel for work, does anybody? I mean they cover the travel but I don't get additional salary for it.

Hohocabbage

“Even once back at work, with a breastfed non sleeping one year old I would have really struggled to be away overnight.”

Whether your child sleeps well or not is irrelevant to an employer. Breast feeding is protected by legislation so if the OP still needs to pump, then she needs to be provided with appropriate space and time for that.
Not being harsh here, I know it’s bloody hard returning to work with young children, I did it when my dc1 was 12 weeks old. Just pointing out the facts. If this is part of the OPs job, then she needs to find a way of working things out or consider moving to another job. Tbf with a one year old, and a husband who can take over from 9pm, having a handful of overnight trips per year is not a huge problem imo. It just takes planning and being prepared to fork out the extra for a babysitter.

Ps if finding a babysitter to pick up and drive home is an issue, maybe look for one near the nursery who can pick up and have the baby at their house. The OPs husband can they collect the child even earlier and drive home. That might work better as she says the DH will be doing nursery drop offs so presumably works fairly near the nursery. Babysitter can Give the child tea and get them washed and in pjs, dad picks up, drives home and puts them to bed. Quite doable for just a few occasions annually

This doesn't answer your question but something that rings alarm bells for me in your OP is that you say you're using annual leave to cover some nursery to save you the fees.

Have you also got a few days' annual leave reserved for when your child is ill and can't attend nursery?

DD started nursery in October and there have been 7 days already where she was too unwell for nursery. She has basically been ill almost constantly for 2.5 months. Apparently this is very normal for a baby/toddler starting nursery as they meet loads of illnesses and it takes time for them to build up immunity.

Knowing what I know now, I'd want to keep at least 5 days annual leave in the first year to cover illness. Most employers offer some parental leave I think but it won't be enough to cover all illness in the first year.

Good point there; yes, totally normal for a child to pick up quite a few bugs once they start mixing with other children regularly. I know nursery feels like a big big financially to begin with, but it’s wise to keep back some annual leave to cover all sorts of eventualities. It would completely solve the OPs problem anyway if her dh took leave when she had her overnights. And as the alternative is paying for a babysitter anyway, that will go towards offsetting the savings the OP is making by using annual leave to try to cut down on nursery costs. Babysitter hourly rate is likely to be at least the nursery hourly rate; possibly more because it’s ‘one off’ rather than regular

I agree that with annual leave for DH or a hired babysitter to collect baby for 2 evenings (if DH doesn’t stop work until 8pm then I hope morning drop offs will be OK) this should be doable, but I second the PP in saying do prepare for the inevitable rotavirus/colds/conjunctivitis/chickenpox which will inevitably crop up at the least convenient time and require emergency holiday leave.

The situation is no different for working mother or father when both parents work. When I work away (and this is a regular part of my job) DH operates solo and I do when he is away. Sometimes it involves finishing work early and other times it would involve using annual leave.

Hi. I had something similar. I spent a long time trying to avoid the conversations about the "next trip" and then eventually it came to a head and i just told my boss that I could not travel and if that meant I couldn't have the job then I understood. At that time I had 3 dcs aged 6, 4 and 1. I also discussed it with HR and it was agreed that I did not have to travel until I was ready. Now they are older (youngest is 4.5 and is in school) I find it easier and have been doing around 4 trips a year for the last year or so.

I'm sure not every employer would react the same way as mine did but I saw a career coach in preparation for the conversation and she gave me the confidence to aim for what I wanted and the courage to build a strong case for how I felt I could still achieve my goals without travelling. I had been told by someone at my work I'd lose my job as a result but as I said, that didn't happen.

Hi all, thank you for the helpful replies. A few ideas to consider, i think the fact is i find the trips a waste of time and don't really want to be away when its not of value. Sadly I'm not sure that would go down well as a reason to not go as saying that to management would not be well recieved Im sure.

With regard to illness we both have unpaid parental leave entitlement.

Long term i plan to look for a new role however i need to go and repay my enhanced maternity pay then i can look into options

Oh and i undertstand i shouldn't be paid extra but i feel i should be given time off in lieu as for some the commute to events is 5 minutes and often I'm on a min 5 hour journey door to door where we all start at the same time and finish at the same time so i give work 10 extra hours in my mind. Moving closer to meetings isnt an option either as i work nearby where i live

I know "it is what it is" but I'm very sad at the idea of leaving DS behind, I feel like working will mean i miss so much.

But presumably some of those work colleagues will have a longer commute usually, even if the training sessions are more convenient for them? Surely it can’t be the case that you’re the only employee having to travel 5 hours and it’s on the doorstep for everyone else?

Anyway, the main issue seems to be that you don’t find these sessions useful, so that’s the thing to focus on really. If there is a way you can evidence that- that it makes no difference to your ability to do the job- that’s a more valid argument than stating childcare difficulties. Of course it’s also a much bigger issue because presumably it’s not beneficial to other staff either, and it may be that training needs to be looked at across the board if it’s not a productive use of time

It does seem unfair, especially if you feel it's not vaulable. But you'll be able to duck some of them with a childcare reason, I'm sure, as long as you play willing with the majority of them. As with everything, if you give on your side you'll probably find your employer more flexible.

Do make sure your DH is having the same conversations with his employer - how sure can you be that there is "no way" he could do an early finish if he doesn't ask? All employers are required to consider if flexible working could be offered.

Just in case you haven't looked into all the nitty gritty, unpaid parental leave must be booked 21 days in advance, and has to be taken in blocks of a week at a time. So it won't be much good for child too unwell for nursery for 48 hours, for example. And if you are already trying to save money by using annual leave I'd worry your budget is so tight you couldn't afford unpaid time off...
www.gov.uk/parental-leave/notice-period

Don't mean to be negative! Just practical from someone who has been-there-done-that with all the childcare and work juggling...

When you refer to unpaid parental leave do you mean the statutory parental leave or the caring responsibility leave - just if the former the business can refuse an application if the timing doesn't suit business needs and so couldn't be relied upon and the caring for dependents is usually intended to be a short term emergency leave to allow for the arrangement of care - so if your DS was ill you could use emergency caring dependent leave to pick him up from nursery but your employer may expect you to be back in work the following day having arranged alternate care plans.
Of course some employers are more sympathetic and will be flexible but I thought its better going in with your eyes open.