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Original poster

Work won't pay me for mandatory training. Is this legal

24 replies

NicoAndTheNiners · 28/12/2018 16:38

I work for the nhs on the bank. I'm out of date with 17 e-learning packages which can't be done at home. I'd need to go and sit in the hospital to do them....I think it will take a full day.

Hospital say they won't pay me for my time. The training dept always say permanent staff should be paid for their time but bank staff don't as "it's part of the flexibility ".

Hospital say they're going to restrict my shifts unless I do it. Surely they're breaching some sort of minimum wage thing?

I already do all my professional nurse updates/revalidation stuff in my own time and I'm buggered if I'm doing this as well.

OP posts:
wizzywig · 28/12/2018 16:40

This is the shit side of bank work. I have to travel to mandatory training and its so far away (2hrs each way).

wizzywig · 28/12/2018 16:41

And yes any online learning done on my own time.

Timeforabiscuit · 28/12/2018 16:41

Bloody hell! 17!! To be honest Id get involved in a union quick smart, its workplace training - unless its transferrable to other trusts?

Elearning is a slow death at the best of times, but to face 17 at once shudder

Timeforabiscuit · 28/12/2018 16:44

I suppose the alternative would be being overworked so much you'd have to do it in your own time anyway to keep up!

Original poster
NicoAndTheNiners · 28/12/2018 16:53

No the training isn't transferrable.

I am in the union but rep has stood down after falling out with the union who are fairly useless.

OP posts:
takemetomars · 28/12/2018 17:07

If you are bank then you are not employed.
You need mandatory training to be competent and safe in your job.
They do not need to pay you and there is nothing illegal in this scenario.
I am self employed as a nurse, I have to PAY for my mandatory training and do it in my own time. It is one of the disadvantages of not being directly wmployed

HouseOfGoldandBones · 28/12/2018 17:12

I would have thought that the whole point of bank nursing was that the hospital could just call you as & when you were required & you turn up, ready to go, as it were.

If you're not up to date with training, then I would have assumed that they wouldn't want you working.

It is the same with Oil workers. When they are looking for work, they are expected to have all of their training certificates so they are ready to go (and they pay thousands for these)

RCohle · 28/12/2018 17:34

Bank staff aren't employees so the law is very different.

Having this training is a qualification the NHS require you to have before offering bank work.

Nacreous · 28/12/2018 17:38

The e-learning platform mainly lets you skip the actual training and jump straight to the test, so I reckon you could probably cut a good few hours on the obvious ones (health and safety, various safeguarding ones) as you'll know the answers as part of your job. Ultimately I'm pretty sure you aren't actually employed when you work on bank (no sick/Holiday pay?) so they are free to demand you do that training to be qualified as bank staff. Equally if they are short staffed even with bank staff you may be able to negotiate that they pay you for it.

flowery · 28/12/2018 18:56

If to be offered work on the bank you need to have certain up to date qualifications, they don’t have to pay you for your time doing them, no.

And it’s not mandatory. You have a choice. You can either do them and therefore be eligible for being offered shifts, or not do them, in which case the work you are able to do will be restricted and those shifts will be offered to someone else.

Lazypuppy · 28/12/2018 19:34

Why have you let yourself get so out of date on your training?

WTFIsAGleepglorp · 28/12/2018 19:36

Yup.

Legal.

You have to train in your own time and if you're behind, you don't get work.

thenightsky · 28/12/2018 19:44

Yep.. I was in exactly that situation OP. Had to do a 3 hour round trip to HR dept and spend the day on one of their Trust computers doing something like 12 courses. Got there at 9am, finished at 4.30pm. Took a Tesco meal deal with me and didn't stop all day.

If I hadn't done it, my bank contract would have been suspended.

Its very easy to let training deadlines get away from you when you are bank only as you miss out on a lot of the email reminds if you don't have a base.

dottyp0104 · 28/12/2018 19:50

Are you doing the modules through learnpro?

UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea · 28/12/2018 20:08

I'm not a lawyer but I have previously been advised by my HR dept that I have to pay casual staff for mandatory training.

Maybe call ACAS for advice?

Tobuyornot99 · 28/12/2018 20:14

My trust are so desperate for bank nurses they happily pay a days rate for you to sit in and complete the training, intact they nag you to death until you do it. Not helpful I know, but I'm surprised that registered nurses are so readily available that they are treating you in this way.

Original poster
NicoAndTheNiners · 28/12/2018 22:05

Well the funny is the trust have over 400 nurse vacancies and are desperate for bank staff and can't cover all the shifts.

The reason I'm so behind is I left my permanent job at the trust (a year ago today), made sure I was up to date with it all the week I left. I've only done 4 or 5 shifts with them since leaving as I have another substantive job elsewhere where oddly enough I do all the diversity, information governance e-learning, etc.

Not heard of learnpro, so not through that.

I doubt I will bother with doing it and just won't work shifts for that trust anymore. It's no skin off my nose at all, it was just nice to go back and do the odd shift and see old friends more than anything.

OP posts:
Original poster
NicoAndTheNiners · 28/12/2018 22:05

But yes, might ring acas and see what they say, thanks.

OP posts:
flowery · 28/12/2018 22:10

You’ve done 4 or 5 shifts for this Trust in a whole year and you think they should pay you for training so you can do more?

Isittimeforbed · 28/12/2018 22:15

It’s so inefficient that the Trust doesn’t recognise your training from your substantive post. It’s all approved by an NHS organisation so the basics at least should be transferable. Having said that, as you’ve only done a handful of shifts in the last year I can see why they don’t want to pay for your training as well as it makes you very expensive. My trust was only paying if you did a minimum of 2 shifts per month but I think even that’s stopped now.

Original poster
NicoAndTheNiners · 28/12/2018 22:45

I guess when I look at it from the point of view that I'm only doing a handful of shifts it won't be worth it for them, in the same way it isn't worth it for me. Guess I need to focus on my other job. But yes, it is silly that one trust can't accept another's training.

OP posts:
WTFIsAGleepglorp · 29/12/2018 11:00

It's a compliance thing.

All staff have to prove they have had the same standardised training and the trust has to be able to pull up the records in order to prove that.

CQC are hard on that.

bastardkitty · 29/12/2018 11:04

It’s so inefficient that the Trust doesn’t recognise your training from your substantive post. It’s all approved by an NHS organisation so the basics at least should be transferable. Presumably it has expired?

Everyone is correct. Employees are paid to do this training but OP is not an employee.

Isittimeforbed · 29/12/2018 11:59

Bastardkitty - I think the OPs training at her old hospital has expired. She’s still up to date with similar training at her new hospital as that’s ongoing but the old hospital don’t recognise that as they have their own training packages. I guess as pp said the hospital need proof of what has been achieved. You’d think there’d be a way of centralising records especially as so much is done electronically now.

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