Fucked up (a bit) in new job...but should there be some leeway?

[alltoomuchrightnow]

Firstly I should say I know I've messed up, and two wrongs don't make a right! My morale is low and I'm resentful but this certainly wasn't intentional.
I've posted before re I had to work late and my car got locked in overnight (had to leave it on site), and I am also on someone else's thread re doing unpaid overtime.
I'm 2.5 months into a new job (retail - shop floor). Due to working alone in a busy department I leave work late, this doesn't get paid nor can get time off in lieu (this has all been discussed). It's a difficult situation as a/ I don't want to risk not being offered more hours b/ I'm on probation c/ I know how retail works (I'm an ex manager, however this place is taking the piss) d/ I;m told to do the extra work - they do know the score! . Also it's often one person (let's call him Jake) from HR that often gives me the extra work to do at home time. Anyway I had had good feedback and a great first month review but have been fed up at all the extra hours I've clocked up unpaid (although I know how it is at 'peak season')

Anyway the last two days I've messed up. I always get in slightly early, I always leave late, but yesterday I started 8 minutes late on my department. Sod's law that Jake happened to be there (isn't normally) so it was obviously noted (I was sick on the way to work and had to pull over.. have told him this).
Today's issue was entirely my fault. I took too long on a break, my own fault not keeping eye on time. Again sod's law that Jake was around visiting my dept, and had timed me. Got a bollocking for this.
My point of view is this.. I've clocked up, as I said, many unpaid hours. He knows this as it's often him giving me the extra work! He asked me if i know what my correct break allowance for my shift is. My point is... I know what it is for the shift I am PAID to do. However, as my shift is always longer (ie I work extra, unpaid), that pushes me into a more generous break allowance category. As he knows inevitably I'll be staying late, then I 'should' get that extra time (this is obviously my view!). Of course he doesn't see it this way. I didn't deliberately take longer today but I did think he'd overlook it seeing as I work long enough to earn that extra time out. (I'm not trying to make the rules and I know someone will say 'it doesn't work like that'..but I have put in a huge amount of extra time and am a conscientious worker.. I am also doing the work of several people, alone...)
I'm banging my head against a wall here. It's like they've tied a noose around my neck. I can't leave until the work is done and my dept is tidy etc and I've done what I'm assigned to do for that evening shift (I always work the end of day shifts so it does mean more tidying up and stock recovery) Everyone knows I stay late. Loads of people comment. (annoyingly they do get overtime but my dept, which is a temporary one, does not!) But as today shows I'm not 'allowed' that extra break entitlement.
How can I go to HR when he IS HR?! (ok there's others in HR too but it's a bit awkward!)

Another issue is that I'm unwell with chest infection (for nearly two months now.. compromised immune system.. I caught it at work), Ive also been covering for others who are unwell, I've not been able to take time off sick as I'm new on probation; it's been made quite clear to me that I should just go in and grin and bear it as to be sick on probation will certainly work against me
It is affecting me as I feel so utterly unwell and it's such a physical job
Ive worked in retail nearly 30 years and there's been nothing like this

Could you contact a union rep? Or ask for legal advice from someone. I'd go to citizens advice if I were you don't call last time I did that I was on hold for a v long time then they hung up on my before I got through to anyone. This guy's taking the absolute piss though and he absolutely shouldn't be allowed to get away with it. What a wanker.

i'm not in a union..I know I need to join one!

Oh my fucking god you're a human being don't ever let the capitalist inhumane system tell you you aren't one. You have rights. Don't let them fuck you over. Please don't.

Citizens advice then and I'd do it ASAP if I were you.

I remember your previous thread.

I’ve had this in jobs before where I give the employer so much leeway, but the tiniest mistake in my part is made into a huge deal.

What are your future prospects at this job?

I guess you have two options, either look for a better job or hang in there, keep your head down and hope things improve.

I actually did the latter and things did improve a lot, but I suspect most people will advise the former.

Maybe have a look around and see what else is available out there.

And please do join a union! The system is unfair with companies profiting so much off of their employees hard work who they pay shit wages to especially in retail. Join a union and you'll be taking a stand however small. It's important.

this is my other thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/employment_issues/3426872-Crying-and-shaking-re-leaving-work-tonight-who-is-to-blame-Car-left-behind

So many human rights violations. I reinforce my other points but even louder! I'd tell you to nick stuff but probs not a good idea in you position (or anyone's it's a joke) although let's be honest it wouldn't be morally wrong.

Blackcat, could be good prospect wise.. unless I have now blown it. They are also completely cut throat at letting people go during their probation period (or even, after their probation period..I've seen a lot of sackings in my 2.5 months!) Let's just say.. I've had great feedback from the manager of the store despite the fact he has 500 other people to remember. My issue is with HR (and to an extent my department manager who I don't see much, for lack of support)
My background is a retail manager but of small often independent shops. I wanted a change and to see what it was like to work for a huge, successful company. Here I am starting again at the bottom, by choice. I'm due to change departments. I feel like quitting right now but would be shooting self in foot? I will change managers but this guy will still be watching me

Citizens advice!!!!! That car thing is really not ok and sounded really scary. I really think you should challenge them on their wrongs.

I really feel for you. The world of work can be a harsh place. I have no advice but want to give you . Hope all works out.

To be honest, the type of employer were they expect you to be flexible, but are sticklers in return is always going to ring alarm bells.

There is one thing from your count that makes me think you might be somewhere worth sticking it out.

Is this policy, or is this Jake? He might just be a vindictive bully who enjoys a power trip. If it’s Jake, not policy, do you have a chance standing up to him?

My gut is that that is unlikely, given he is in HR and you are in probationary. But if you see a way through this, give it a go.

If you do give it a go, join a union. Otherwise you’ll just end up,bullied/stressed/ill/no reference.

thankyou Jessstan and everyone.
I've had such a shite awful day and not been home long, the replies have really helped
To make things worse I am also car less!
It's like my car is also saying don't go back there! ;) It broke down tonight on my way home from work and I've had to leave it in a rural lay by where fly tippers go :( Luckily am off tomorrow but no idea how I'll get to work on Friday as no public transport.
Have talked things through with DP. If this is brought up again especially in my next review ( I can imagine Jake telling my manager) I will defend myself. If I'd been a jobsworth Jake would have had a point and I understand I'd have to do a bit of grovelling and keep my head down. But they all know I'm a conscientious worker who works late and goes the extra mile.
It's not just me, by the way. I have a new co worker (newer than me) who works some of the time I'm not there (she works alone too and slightly more hours than me) She puts in the extra unpaid hours too and had a bollocking too and told she's close to disciplinary ...
We are both totally worn out and at end of tether as have given so much extra to them
We also know that other departments get paid overtime, so it's particularly unfair

That is so unfair to be pulled up for a few extra minutes after hours of unpaid overtime.

Do you have a contract with set hours? I didn't think it was legal of them to expect you to do hours of unpaid overtime. You need to get proper advice on this.

TheFairy... there is a part of it being expected, and what I would expect, in terms of staying late, I know how retail works in busy periods; I'm an ex manager. I'm always prepared to stay late and tidy up and do stock recovery. Although this was easier to suck up when I was a manager. As a new employee on probation it seems a bit unfair when in theory I shouldn't have the manager's responsibilities(she's never around as runs her own permanent department). As a manager you know you will be put in unpaid hours..that's part of it. I wouldn't have expected my staff to. And now I'm that staff..but....
well I am surprised, especially now I'm in a huge company. And that there's not more staff and more help in my department. Now I know why co workers have told me they refuse to work that department! This is why they had to recruit from outside! Of course it's too late for me to hear this now!
But him.. he sees the extra I have to do, and adds to that. For example say it's 10pm, my home time. He will see me doing the recovery and tidy up and that I'll be late anyway( say it's a Saturday night so it's been a manic day/eve) but asks me to do something else entirely. So I'll say ok I'll start that tomorrow .. and he'll say, no, now... And how can I refuse when I'm on probation. He's also the one who interviewed me. He gave me the job (well, I had two interviews, but it was ultimately down to him). But this is ridiculous. I'm a middle aged woman letting him bully me . As I have been in my last few jobs. It's a pattern. I promised myself I'd break it and here I am again. Beholden because I need a job. I hate this. And I lose my self respect.
I think I need to get out of retail.

They sound completely unreasonable. Generally speaking, you can't reason with the unreasonable. I would look for another job.

I think this is a pattern, one he instigates, not one that’s your fault.

It’s his little fiefdom and he gets a power trip out of it. When he interviews, he’s looking for someone he will enjoy breaking/torturing. I’ve seen this type of person at work before.

I do think retail is likely to be toxic, as it’s a shrinking not a growing field, and this often means an environment where people get away with things.

At the very least, I’d cultivate a strong friendship with your new co-worker. Two people who can corroborate a pattern is a different proposition than someone who has been singled out on their own. Don’t over play your hand with that, but it might make him think twice.

I worked somewhere once where two people left in close succession, gave damning exit interviews and the manager was sacked. That was against a background of poor performance in other areas.

If the department already has a reputation within the store of being a bad place to work, if turnover is high and a lot of this guy’s hires are being sacked, it might add up to something in someone’s mind at some point. But on;y if they are on the ball.

Agree with SeaAndSand, look for another job. Give a damning exit interview. Persuade your colleague to do similar.

Noenergy, today and yesterday I did 'take' approx 40 minutes all in all. Not good and I've now lost the 'upper hand' (if I ever had it!)
Not intentional and I apologised and said I'd make up for it , which I did (but then I always stay late anyway)!
I realise this is poor show for a new employee..however I estimate 30-40 free hours they've had out of me since I started . I've had jobs in the past where, they never paid overtime. That's never happened in my 30 yrs. But some did give off time in lieu as they know the reality of busy times of year.. you will have to work late or miss breaks or cut breaks short

TheFairy, I am friends with her
She says wants to speak to HR about all her unpaid hours (in view of her telling off). They can look at both our clocking out times. I just wonder how we can prove it though. No one's going to trawl through hours of camera of us still on the shop floor. Knowing them they'd probably say we left and then hang around the canteen or loos or whatever chatting. But we can but try...As I said, morale low but I don't work alongside her, but we do keep in touch

I’d go more for the bullying and hostile work environment angle re Jake, than get caught up in wrangling about hours.

Join up and speak to USDAW
Good luck x.

When the person who is the problem is HR, what on earth do you do?! They are the ones there to help and support!
Has anyone else had this? He is HR but also active on the shop floor, is the issue, he's more than just HR so does know how the shop works.
Annoyingly as he's mainly in office though, he always leaves at night before me, having given me loads more work to do! So I'm the solo person left on shop floor because mine is the only dept that has one person working at a time

The issue might not have been with the extra time you took but the fact you didn't discuss it beforehand and they didn't know where you were/when you were coming back.

If I were you, I would say to Jack ne t time you see it that you apologise for not having informed everyone and in the future you will let someone higher up know if you are going to be longer, but that in light of all the extra unpaid hours you've been doing above your contract you are assuming you taking a longer lunch break on an occasional basis is not an issue from the point of working hours.