How do I employ a cleaner these days?

[TressiliansStone]

Reading MN has put the fear of god in me. Is it really complicated to have someone work a few hours a week these days?

I need assistance for an hour or two a week: I'm disabled and need cleaning plus occasional assorted household help (lifting, gardening, errands, etc).

I used to just put a note in the newsagent's window. My previous cleaner/assistants all had young children and were living nearby, and popping in for an hour or two suited them.

I paid above NMW per hour, no sick or holiday pay, and I didn't pay NI. When they wanted, they took other jobs and even bumped my slot around. As far as I understand, this means their work for me was on a self-employed basis, but we never really discussed it.

Now I need to recruit again. But I'm a bit alarmed that maybe I have to find someone who has declared themselves (to HMRC? DWP?) as self-employed?

Or can I just pay someone on a casual basis as before, and let them sort out their status?

I doubt I can use a cleaning agency, as it's a mixed job.

MN wisdom much appreciated!

There is no need for you to employ a cleaner. The cleaner is self- employed so it is their responsibility 100% to do all tax NI declarations to HMRC.

All you need to do is pay them an hourly rate for say 3 hours per week at £12 per hour.

Just an example, my cleaner and I have agreed 3 hours on a Friday afternoon. She's always there at the same time, as she can then plan the rest of her week. From time to time she might take time off but we agree it in advance, she knows she cannot randomly shuffle me around, as I need predictability, so does she. I do pay her even if she has a week's holiday once every 3-4 months, but that's completely my choice she never expects it.

It’s entirely up to the cleaner to sort out their tax affairs.

It’s entirely up to the cleaner to sort out their tax affairs.

Not if they are appointed by someone talking about employment and NMW- then they would be right to assume that they were an employee- and it falls on he employer.

Many cleaners are self-employed. It's impossible to advise whether yours will be, as it depends on the arrangement. Employment status is decided by the realities of how the relationship works in practice, it's not something either party gets to just choose.

Your options are either employment, casual worker or self-employed. If the person is self-employed they'll need to register with HMRC as such. You don't have to do that. If they are either employed or worker status, you'll need to register for PAYE as an employer.

www.gov.uk/guidance/check-employment-status-for-tax

www.gov.uk/government/collections/employed-or-self-employed

www.bing.com/search?q=indicators+of+employment+status&form=EDGTCT&qs=AS&cvid=5a616a6d2eaf4253b2c81007296c2c9b&cc=GB&setlang=en-GB

Thank you for the replies.

So is the key thing that we discuss at the start, and see if they are comfortable being self-employed?

If they are a SAHP or a part-time actual employee elsewhere – like my previous assistants – might that cause them paperwork? (I'm concerned they might decide the paperwork is more hassle than it's worth and turn down the work.)

x-posted. Thank you flowery.

I'll pick through those links for the definition of "Casual Worker" – unless you know it off the top of your head?

It sounds like the right category - as and when, by mutual agreement.

www.gov.uk/employment-status/worker

Arggh. So basically, someone ends up having to do HMRC paperwork, for me to have a neighbour pop in for an hour a week for £12?

This is what I was afraid of.

It's not that anyone's trying to dodge tax or defraud the welfare system – the amounts in themselves are too piddly to mean much either way. It's that the paperwork will be disproportionate to the benefit.

Among the jobs for the assistant will be helping me with paperwork on bad days, and taking things to the post. So I could end up employing them to help me manage employing them...

If I use someone whom I believe to be self-employed, but they actually don't have other clients for say 6 months, I'm concerned this may tip the balance into them being employed.

Our cleaner is self-employed. She comes on a Friday morning but is not restricted exactly when, she can and does substitute with others sometimes - sometimes it's just her, sometimes it's two of them, sometimes it's others. She has lots of clients, and invoices us monthly. She has a very high degree of control over her work.

Having other clients is only one factor, so if other factors indicate self-employment, the fact that the person doesn't technically have any other clients doesn't necessarily mean it's either employment/casual worker status. It's the overall picture which matters.

So apparently if they're a Casual Worker, I'll need to be paying this:

Employers' liability insurance
You must get Employers’ Liability (EL) insurance as soon as you become an employer - your policy must cover you for at least £5 million and come from an authorised insurer.

And be policing their immigration and ID documents on behalf of the Home Office.

And be reporting "payroll" to HMRC. On which Universal Credit calculations will depend – and if the person is under-employed enough to accept an hour a week's work, there's a high chance they will be involved with UC some way.

Honestly, if I were well enough to be doing all this crap, I wouldn't need assistance from someone in the first place.

And even if could leap through the hoops, I could only employ someone who WASN'T receiving with Universal Credit because the reporting is so onerous and delays so devastating to them. Ie give the job only to someone who didn't need it.

Meanwhile "Self-Employed" means they can nominate anyone to turn up in their place, they must have a fixed task not a fixed time, and they don't work directly under a manager. I don't think I can offer those criteria.

I honestly don't know what I'm going to do.

Sorry, x-posted again.

That's vaguely reassuring on the cleaning front, thank you.

But all the non-cleaning stuff is highly directed by me:
– can you fetch something from the shed
– can you collect this prescription
– can you download this form from HMRC, run up and down stairs to wrestle with the printer, fill most of it in so I can sign at the bottom

You're NOT the employer. You're the cleaner's client. She invoices you, you pay the bill.

You don't need to worry about any of this stuff.

m.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=3303

www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/using-a-personal-assistant-to-provide-your-care/amp

I think you are over thinking this. We have a cleaner. I pay her £25 for two hours work once a week. She is responsible for managing her own tax affairs.

Thanks flowery. That's helpful, in a Very Bad News sort of way.

I'm honestly not capable of keeping HMRC happy. I can't even manage my own bills in bad months – I overpay some bills with Standing Orders in case I'm not well enough to negotiate the bank website. I've had some expensive failures, but at least commercial companies are happy with money in the end.

Any engagement with HMRC or the DWP will be a fast-track to a snowball of punishment, where I fail one month because I'm ill, and then fail the next month because I can't do what is now Original Task + Damage Control.

I think I'm going to have to just have a self-employed cleaner. And a separate self-employed gardener once in a blue moon. And just accept a lower quality of life – not even because of money (although that is a serious issue too).

Level of direction is relevant, yes, but I think maybe you're overanalysing a little. It's fine to ask a genuinely self-employed person to do some specific tasks.
– can you fetch something from the shed
– can you collect this prescription
– can you download this form from HMRC, run up and down stairs to wrestle with the printer, fill most of it in so I can sign at the bottom

In the same way as when our cleaner is in, she normally just gets on with it because she knows how to clean a house, but occasionally there might be something specific I want her to do. That's ok.

I can't tell you whether this person will or won't be genuinely self-employed. It's a question of balancing all the relevant factors, including risk, and deciding what's the best approach.

Oh dear OP you are overthinking this, as others have posted.
You seem beset by anxiety and are causing yourself unnecessary worry.
I would just ask a cleaner who has self employed status to clean for you and explain that there might occasionally be extra tasks, like fetching stuff from the shed/printer.
As regards your medication, could you not have that delivered by a local pharmacy?
I wish I lived nearby, I'm a self employed cleaner and I'm more than happy to do just cleaning for my customers. (Taking stuff to charity shops, dropping parcels at the post office etc.)