Should I be paid to attend training?

[MerryMarigold]

My work have kindly arranged for me to attend a 12 hour first aid course (with 10 days notice, including one block of 6 hours on a Saturday). The short notice was a bit of an issue in itself (clashing with other plans), but I've managed to resolve that.

However, I now find it out I will not be paid for the time, although the cost of the course is covered by work. Is this normal? The contract does not state anything about training. I am already doing a lot of extra unpaid hours trying to keep on top of the work admin, but a 12 hour block seems a lot.

What does your contract say?

Did you ask for the training? If not, I would take the 12 hours back by swapping your training day with your usual hours.

If not paid, could you arrange time off in lieu? Particularly if having to attend training at a weekend? Do you need it to carry out your role - in which case I would say it should definitely be paid/time back.

You should be paid for compulsory training although if you are salaried and well above minimum wage then this might be covered in the contract as an expectation (other reasonable duties / work outside standard hours etc). So it depends on your situation.

a. The contract doesn't state anything about training.
b. I am paid £8.00 per hour, so not well above minimum wage
c. I did not request the training and knew absolutely nothing about it until yesterday!
d. I have been told we don't get time off in lieu
e. I think it's probably compulsory

Thing is though, is there anything I can do about it? Obviously I could refuse to go, but my life would be made very difficult since I read the course details that you can't cancel it, although you can swap it to another member of staff. Plus, I think it probably is compulsory.

Toil would be worth pushing for.

It counts as working so if it pushes you below minimum wage for your hours that month it must be paid (or at least you must make minimum wage including those hours).

I work part time and have to do first aid training. I will be getting paid overtime for it, I would not be doing it for free! Especially for a job that pays just over minimum wage.

If you are already doing hours of unpaid work for a job paying barely above minimum wage there is something wrong there.

Polarbear, I agree. This is not what I signed up for. I didn't know how much extra work was involved at all. I just work in a Nursery, but the level of admin is intense and since I don't have lunch breaks (I work 9.30-2.30), I don't have any time to do the admin as I am working with the children all day.

I am not used to this kind of job at this kind of pay, but have been out of the workplace for a long time (13 years), so I am grateful for a job. However, I don't rely on the income, so I can walk away at any point.It is getting to the point where I'm thinking it's too much even though I really enjoy the children side of things. The extra unpaid hours and the workplace politics are starting to get to me.

Yes. You should be paid or toil

As it's a nursery they might not be able to afford to pay the extra. So many nurseries are financially struggling with all the compulsory regulations that need to followed and paid for on low funding rates.

However, I don't think speaking to your boss and asking for time off in lieu is unreasonable. On the plus side once you have done the first aid course you can take the certificate with you if you decide to move on to new employers in the next three years.

Thanks Tumbleweed. It's true re. the financial side of things. I'm really sorry to leave as I really love working with the children, but the pay is so low vs. the hours/ commitment/ stress. We are permanently short staffed as we literally employ the bare minimum so if people are sick/ on holiday it's so busy. Once you've given up all your (unpaid) lunch breaks or worked from home for several unpaid hours a week, it's certainly less than minimum wage.

I knew you worked in a nursery from your very first post. My DH has been through this for years. Used to be paid for it then new company bought them out (should have been tuped but wasn't and ended up with unfavourable t&cs).

I digress, his contract did say that he had to do overtime and that it was unpaid and that you did not get toil. He was on a decent salary so didn't impact him but lots of his colleagues were on minimum wage and so the regular out of hours staff meetings and weekend training took them under minimum wage. It's not allowed. I did actually report the very large company to hmrc. I'm not sure if they were fined but they did suddenly introduce paid breaks for all staff (which they obviously had to use doing paperwork!) so that this time offset what was being lost through training etc.

If you're sure there's nothing in your contract (check sections on working hours, overtime and training) then no you don't have to do it. Don't be surprised if they try to bring a contractual change. You could offer to do it in exchange for some toil and explain there's nothing in your contract. From DHs experience these things get worse. He ended up leaving and is now working for a company who pay you for any (mininal) training at the weekend and give lots of notice for anything out of hours.

You should be paid or receive toil. Anything else violates minimum wage laws and is reportable to HMRC.

If it is a works course then yes you should be paid.

If it's mandatory training then they have to pay you. That's pretty basic employment law.

You should be paid. They're taking the piss I think! Just trying to see if they can get away with it.

I was a nursery nurse and had to attend first aid courses.
We had the option to be paid / to get time in lieu ... I think it was a different policy for full time and part time workers though

Thanks all. I have asked for TOIL. I feel bad asking for that as I know it puts everyone else under pressure, but what else?