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Original poster

Tracking employees

87 replies

backaftera2yearbreak · 20/09/2018 20:24

Wats app has a new feature that shows you someone’s location. My nieces work want to use this feature to see where they are on there days off. This is in case they need them to work overtime. That way the employees could not lie about there where abouts and be made to come in. Is this in any way legal?

OP posts:

oakthorn · 20/09/2018 22:04

Omg . Legally if you have trackers in a company car it must be able to be disabled outside work hours. This cannot be legal.

Sinkingswimmer · 20/09/2018 22:56

So people lie and say they're on holiday when they're not actually away anywhere so as to avoid doing overtime. What would happen if they were 'caught out'? Sacked for lying? If they were to tell the truth and say they were at home but can't/won't come in, what would happen then? Sacked for not coming in? Both woyld surely be grounds for a legal dispute. It won't help the company at all and it's almost cetainly illegal to track employees in their own time, I've no idea why they think this would be a good idea and I hope the union, and staff, tell them to stick it

GinandGingerBeer · 20/09/2018 23:27

I'm intrigued to know what government organisation this is? MI5?

MumOfTwoMasterOfNone · 20/09/2018 23:42

I haven't RTFT but I am going to say that the employees are effectively on call during this period if they are expected to go into work with little or no notice and it would class as working time, for which they should be compensated accordingly. If it is not a normal working time, then surely there is no obligation to work, whether they are on a mini break or just can't be arsed to get out of bed.
The actual tracking thing is absolutely hideous and it does not seem reasonable to undertake surveillance on an employee in this manner. I am pretty sure it would be illegal, given they are not actually at work during the period they are planning to track their employees.

BlingLoving · 20/09/2018 23:55

I'm sorry but this makes no sense. What kind of overtime are you talk g about? Coming into work to do a shift? Or opting out of mandatory 37 hour week and the refusing to do the extra hours and leaving at the end of her 37 hours even if there is work to do?

Outside of emergency services I simply don't see how any job ca have mandatory overtime and force people to come in..is it possible your niece has wrong end of stick? I mean, even if she agreed to be tracked, just because she's at home doesn't mean she can definitely come in - childcare or other caring responsibilities, hosting a party and/or being drink etc. This just doesn't make sense.

SocksRock · 21/09/2018 00:02

I use location features in WhatsApp sometimes - often when meeting up with groups of friends. IIRC it can’t be turned on permanently, the maximum length is 8 hours, are they expecting them to go into the app every 8 hours and reset it?!?

Singlenotsingle · 21/09/2018 00:17

Art 8 of the Human Rights Act says you have a right to private and family life. So whilst in her own time, she would be entitled not to switch it on.

BakedBeans47 · 21/09/2018 00:32

“Mandatory overtime” in a contract doesn’t mean that people can be called in at the drop of a hat and it certainly doesn’t mean it’s legitimate to track their movements in non work time, whether on a work device or not.

Tell her to tell the union to get their finger out their arse and open up a can of whoopass on this lot. Total fucking nonsense.

daisychain01 · 21/09/2018 07:30

I'm with you Bling it is a non-problem with some inconsistencies between the OP narrative and the subsequent update.

So the can install it on a work device which she is not at liberty to keep on her unless she is on an on call rota?

So I suspect the reality is that the organisation has a requirement for some staff to be on call, and they want the employee to have a work mobile to enable communication when the employee has agreed to be on call, and is being remunerated accordingly - maybe it's an IT function where system availability is needed so staff need to be responsive outside core hours etc.

It could be that staff were being paid to be on call but were "down the pub" or whatever, so they've decided they want to go one step further and verify the employee's location while they're being paid and expected to be available for whatever business communication is needed.

The bit about using WhatsApp to ensure the employee isn't lying when they're on a day's annual leave sounds bonkers.

Original poster

backaftera2yearbreak · 21/09/2018 07:42

What inconsistencies would you like me to clarify.

OP posts:

Itsatravesty · 21/09/2018 07:44

I would be looking for another job in this case.

They will be on days off and tracked to check they are where they say they are if they are unavailable for overtime.

This doesn't even make sense, you could be in the coffee shop next to your work but have your children with you for example, therefore be unavailable for work. Just because your're in the physical locality doesn't mean you're available.

Original poster

backaftera2yearbreak · 21/09/2018 07:44

No, the part you have quoted was me replying to someone else to see if I understood what they said. And no, this is not an essential service where they need to be on call.

OP posts:

JuniperBeer · 21/09/2018 07:48

Sounds like a manager who is annoyed with people lying.
But it’s up to people what they do in their own time if they want to lie!
If overtime is going to be compulsory then holidays etc wouldn’t effect it unless they were booked, not just taken in your time off. Otherwise how is it fair that Jane who goes away every weekend isn’t made to do any but Sarah with two kids is because she’s at home?
Get union advice

JuniperBeer · 21/09/2018 07:50

Also, you can only share your location for up to 8h, how is that going to work?
If it’s a personal phone she’s using, turn location services off. They will have to pay for people to be on call and provide work phones

Original poster

backaftera2yearbreak · 21/09/2018 07:51

Yes. She will. Im just concerned there are employers who think it’s perfectly acceptable to even float an idea of tracking staff on their days off. There is no in call rota. She is never required to be on call.

OP posts:

daisychain01 · 21/09/2018 07:55

backafter there's a world of difference between employee's being tracked on their own personal phone to ensure they aren't lying on their day off about where they are, to avoid doing on call duties, and the scenario I described where people are meant to be on Call ( for whatever reason, to meet business need) and need to be contacted on the work phone they have been issued with to execute their duties.

I think you need to check which scenario is actually the case.

Original poster

backaftera2yearbreak · 21/09/2018 08:04

There are no in call duties. She does not work in a job where she needs to be on call.

OP posts:

Womaningreen · 21/09/2018 10:17

I can't see how this is legal. Maybe post on the legal board? I just have my work phone off when not in work.

if someone gives you an on call rota and it's in your contract, fine. But to actually track locations of people not at work? That's a major issue.

is your DD thinking to give up the job? I must admit, I wouldn't want to work for anyone with these ideas.

AccidentallyRunToWindsor · 21/09/2018 10:55

This isn't legal, no way.

I work in HR for context and this sounds ludicrous.

Satsumaeater · 21/09/2018 12:37

No it's not legal and I don't think it's even legal if you are officially on call.

But while the union is contesting it, just switch the phone off outside contractual hours if it's a work phone. I do that and I am not tracked, I just don't want to be called when I am not working.

daisychain01 · 21/09/2018 12:45

So if there are no on call duties and she doesn't have need for a work mobile, I don't see what her specific concern is, unless she is certain they will push through a significant change to employee T&C of employment being a mandatory enforcement of monitoring of employees' personal location via a phone app 24/7/365, even during personal leave time.

Your OP asks if the scenario is legal, but I think she needs to recheck the facts as it sounds ludicrous to me, particularly for a Govt department that will be upsides of everything from GDPR to Human Rights, freedom and right to a personal life etc etc.

HoleyCoMoley · 21/09/2018 14:54

I'm getting confused. Am I right now in thinking your nieces work for some govt. Office, they want to change the contracts. Do they want to introduce compulsory overtime or do they want permission to track people on their private phones on their days off if they say they cannot do overtime to catch them out. Who exactly is going to track them, sitting in the office matching up their reasons for being unavailable and hour by hour locations, are they training people to do this, installing surveillance equipment, and what action will they take if someone refuses to co operate, turns their location or phone off or tells a porkie pie. Perhaps they will use spy recordings when they ask people to do overtime.

WheelyCote · 21/09/2018 14:54

Is this the NHS....wouldn't put it past them

And horrified that potentially free personal time is no longer personal free time.

It's like being oncall if the call her in would she be paid extra?
Not that it makes it any better.

I'd leave the organisation

Original poster

backaftera2yearbreak · 21/09/2018 15:28

Holey the want to do both.

OP posts:

PoisonousSmurf · 21/09/2018 15:38

Is this for home care job? I used to work for a despicable company who used to try and bribe people to come in on their days off and if you didn't they would get angry and say you would be sacked!
They even broke their own rules about NOT bringing children to work, but they expected you to bring in toddlers to strangers houses or leave them in the car!
I quit!

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