how to calculate holday entitlement for part timers

[christywhisty]

I am entitled to 26 days annual leave plus 12.5 days bank holidays and office closures.

I work part time 20 hours a week 4 hours a day, so if I take a day off , I only work 16 hours.

I have worked out if I worked full time I would get 182 hrs annual plus 85.5 hours BH
working only 20 hours I get 104 hrs AL plus 50 hrs for bank holidays etc

However due to change in HR i have been told I have to prorata the days by 20/35. Which gives me 15 days AL plus 7 days BH which is okay. However, and here is the big BUT have been told if I take a week off , this counts as 5 days. I am therefore only getting 60 hours (15 days = 3weeks x 20 hours a week) holiday a year not the 104.

I also have to take a day off for a bank holiday or office closure which is 12.5 days a year. This means I have to cover 5.5 days from my AL leaving me just 9.5 days for the rest of the year which won't even allow me to take a 2 week break.

If the 15 days are equal to 104 hours then I am being asked to take 35 hours from it for a week not the 20 hours I actually work. If I take a day off I have to take 7 hours instead of 4 hours.

I have looked up on the ACAS website and it says to prorata bank holiday if someone doesn't normally work mondays etc, but as I always work every day I have no choice other than to take it as part of my leave.
It worked perfectly well the way I did it before, my line manager fully understood the method I was using, but now it seems I am being penalised for working part time.

headache alert! I don't understand your calculations, but I'm sure they're right.

If you work 5 days a week, however many hours, then I would assume you are being paid on a pro-rata basis for those days. Surely if you take a week off, you are taking 5 days? Why aren't you still entitled to 26 days leave? I have never heard of cvalculating leave in terms of hours rather than days.

Hope someone else who has more experience of this comes along soon...

I think you should ring ACAS for more advice. I thought that if you worked every day ie 5 days you got the full holiday entitlement whether you worked 1 hour or 8 hours? At the end of the day if you have a day or a week off you're still only getting paid your normal wage.
Surely they should either work out your entitlement in days OR hours not a combination to suit themselves.

Hmmm...

My holiday is calculated in hours (I work 4 days). As far as BH and closures are concenred if they fall on a Mon/Tues/Weds I have to take 7.2hrs (a full day) out my holiday entitlement. If a Bank holiday is a Thurs/Fri I take 3.6hr out of my entitlement - as that is what I would normally work IYSWIM. From your calculation I think that a bank holiday should cost you 4hrs and I would hole that it is illegal to do otherwise.

I wonder wether Hr are telling you that your can have 26 days worth of AL (i,e 26 lots of 4hrs) and 12.5 days worth of BH (i.e 12.5 lots of 4hrs). So if you have a week off you take 5 days - but 5 4hr days IYSWIM.

*hope not hole!!!

What I was trying to say is that HR have pro-rata'd your days....so the number of 'days' is the same for everyne - its just that your definition of a day is 4hrs whereas everyone elses day is 7.5hrs (or whatever it works out to).

Joe Blogs takes a 'day' holiday and uses 7.2hrs - you take a 'day' holiday and use 4hr.

Everyone is entitled to 26+12.5 days - but the length of the day is variable.

I have to say, I don't understand your calculations either. However, I have always worked on the principle that if someone works 7 hours per day then for that person 1 day = 7 hours, whereas for a person who works 4 hours per day, then 1 day = 4 hours.

Alternatively you could work out the number of hours you work per year. So working 4 hours per day, 5 days per week: 365 (days in the average year) divided by 7 (days in a week) mulitplied by 5 (the number of days per week you work) = 260 days. Multiply that by 4 (the number of hours per day you work) = 1040 hours.

You are then entitled to 26 days (which equate to 4 hours per day) holiday. So 26 x 4 = 104 hours, which is 1 hour's holiday for every ten hours you work.

I may be wrong here, but it seems to me that you or your HR department, are somehow combining the two. From my understanding of your situation, the 12.5 days bank holidays and office are additional to your annual leave entitlement - you have to take those days because your employer closes. That should not affect your entitlement to annual leave, because you should not be using annual leave for the bh/office closed days, as those appear to be additional to your annual leave entitlement.

I hope that makes sense, because I think I have just confused myself.

I work 3 days a week (Tuesday to Thursday) and get 12 days holiday as standard (everyone gets 20 days but 12 days is the pro-rata for my 3 days). Therefore i get 4 weeks as per everyone else. I still have my extra 5 days for long service as part-timers still earn these. Bank holidays i get pro-rata too, HR advise how many bank holidays i miss out on (ie not in work on that day) and pro rate them and i get them as time in lieu. Its only usually xmas that falls mid week so i am just off on those days as per every one else.

Either your days leave should be the same as a full timer's (easiest for you as work the same number of hours each day) OR your holiday entitlement in hours is pro-rata'd. Not both!!!

Mayne HR in a half-arsed way are trying to say that your total leave in days is pro-rata's, but that a days leave is 7 hours? So if you take one a hlaf days off that's only 1 day of leave?

Thanks
What I am saying is i should get 26 x 4hrs +12.5 x 4 hrs which is basically the way I have always worked it out.
They are now saying I am only entitled to 15 x 4 hrs + 7 x 4hrs.

Roskva that is exactly right

Happymummyofone if you take a week off, does it count as 3 days or 5 days of your holiday?

HR people are not renouned for their ability to understand maths (apologies to anyone who works in HR and can do maths). I have had a few interesting discussions with my HR about part-time hours and holiday myself. You should either be getting the full number of days or be booking a half-day's holiday when you want to take a day off. You also shouldn't have to use your holiday for bank holidays if full-timers don't have to. Ask them to put it in writing if they haven't already and then double check it with your boss and with the HR director.

Try working out holiday entitlements for people who work part time, but not a set number of hours per day (or set number of days per week) if you really want a maths induced headache. The only way I can do it is to work out total hours worked per month and then apply to that the holiday entitlement worked as, for example, 1 hour's holiday for every 12 hours worked (or whatever the figure is).

suggest you refer HR to the DTI_site - their maths is fatally flawed

I work 20 hours aswell.
I think You are right. I think They are wrong.
You work 20 hrs over 5 days.
The money you actually get paid is pro-rat'd to calculate the fact it is only 20 hours over the 5 days.
But your actual holiday entitlement should be the same as f/t employees.
You can't mix calulations between hours and days.
Either one or the other - days or hours, not both.
You have lost out by their calculations. Ring ACAS, yes I know it is an 0845 number - but on this one occasion, call it from work !!!!!!

"However due to change in HR i have been told I have to prorata the days by 20/35"

If this is exactly what they have said I think they are telling you that each day that you work is 20/35 of what everone else does (i.e. 4 v 7.5hrs) anf that every day you take holiday is 20/35 of a whole day (i.e. 4 v 7.5hrs).

0845 numbres are local rate

Yes, but they are "outside my allowance" on both my mobile and BT line, so I try not to call them.

Hi slightlymadspider
HR have actually told me that i am only entitled to 15 days al + 7 days. I then asked how many days I should take for a week and was told to put it down as 5 days. This means I only get 3 weeks when everyone else is getting 5 weeks +1 day

Thanks everybody

I looked at the DTI Webs site is exactly my situation. I had already looked at the ACAS website, but the DTI illustrates my situation brilliantly.
I have all ready emailed my Financial Director who is charge of HR and explained why I think they are wrong, will also give them a copy of the website.

Changing the subject slightly - what is the difference between working part time and compressed hours?

www.cilip.org.uk/jobscareers/careeradvice/flexiblewor king/FW+compressed+hours.htm

this looks like it explains it well.
Basically it's working full time hours over fewer days

Thanks for that i'll have a look. So if you work compressed hours do you get your original f/t holiday allowance or is it prorata'd over the reduced days you work?

YOu should get your f/t holiday entitlement. You are working the same number of hours. That's why I prefer my holiday entitlement as a ratio of hours worked calculation, because it works whatever the working pattern is.

Where I work p/t is calculated in number of hours rather than days. This means we all get the same number of weeks off (whatever the length of our working day). For example I work 2 full days per week but I still get 5 weeks holiday ie. my weeks x 5

And furthermore, beacuse I don't work Mondays whenever there is a Bank Holiday I get given pro-rata time.