Hand-hold Needed, any Employment Solicitors out there, I don't know where to turn?

[MrDarcysotherwoman]

Very long back-story, will try to sum up:

Employed by organisation (1) located at organisation (2), used to be employed by (2) at same location, with same LM. Been in higher position, new organisation just under 2 years.

Covering old and new position for 13 months before my replacement started end Oct '17.

LM at (2) causing issues for long time, recorded these and reported to LM at (1) who with HR Consultant recommended mediation, following our meeting, Couldn't face as very depressed/stressed/anxious and ended up off sick for 7 weeks at beginning of year.

Mediation never resumed.

Went back mid-March. New colleague has been awful with me, sharp, snappy etc. Just kelt relationship with LM professional.

Very little support from LM at (1) and no contact since end of June.

Made Subject Access Request and got it back today.

Very unhappy with tone of emails about me from LM at (2) to LM at (1) didn't say anything to LM, but left work just before lunch today and another colleague let LM know I'd gone home poorly.

What is best way forward, I think today's emails confirm that I should leave? Do I go sick until 2 year point (mid-Oct) as I might want to put in case for unfair/constructive dismissal? Or do I just resign?

Thank you 🙏

A good option is to get an employment solicitor to negotiate an exit deal for you, also known as a compromise agreement. Acompromise agreementis a legally bindingagreementeither during or following the termination of youremployment, and which brings youremploymentto an end. ... You must take independentlegaladvice from alawyeron theagreementfor it be valid and your employer will normally pay for the cost of this. It will include your pay off, agreement on references, etc.

Very difficult to advise just on that. Constructive dismissal is not an option for you until you have two years' service. But you need to be aware that its very difficult to win a case of constructive dismissal. its certainly not simply a case of showing that someone hasn't been very nice to you and a line manager wasn't supportive and sent emails in a tone you didn't like.

I wouldn't do anything until you have your two years under your belt but even then I'm struggling to see what your claim is.

Thanks For advice Joe, I feel completely lost and frightened at prospect of no job, today has been awful and I'm still physically shaking.

Compromise agreements are no more. We now call them settlement agreements.

Can you tell me more Cloud, I'm currently on a fixed term contract until March 2020 with the possibility of permanent position. I have very good leave allowance, non-contributory pension and bonus, but my health is being seriously affected and I don't feel able to go on.
Just to note I am disabled which may/may not assist, work are aware OH assessment carried out etc.
It is not just a matter of someone being unkind, like I said, it's a long story, but thanks for your comments, I don't feel so alone with it.

I think you probably need proper advice from a solicitor who can look at your case in detail. It will all depend on what has been done. You are potentially able to bring a claim under the equality act for disability discrimination without having two years' service but you would need to show that was has happened constitutes disability discrimination.

I can't tell from your post whether you mean that your current position has been for less than two years but you have longer service than this (more than 2 years). If so then you will be a in a better position to try to negotiate an exit.

Hi Cloud, thanks again, I had to leave Civil Service to take up Crown Servant position, two year anniversary mid-Oct as Crown Servant.

I'll need to be candid about this - there is nothing in your posts that indicate your employer has breached your contract or broken any employment law. Is it that they harassed you (ie bullied you about your disability or your sex for example)?

They will have no incentive to pay you off with a settlement agreement, if they haven't actually broken employment law - and if they already offered mediation which you were unable to take, then they've covered themselves. Unless there's some additional detail you haven't included for confidentiality reasons, taking the legal route will be expensive and even more stressful for you.

If you're public sector, think long and hard before actually resigning as you have a lot to lose re pension, flexible working etc. Why not check the internal vacancies board if you're CS, there's bound to be another role you could apply for, with someone supportive to work for.

To win a constructive dismissal claim (with over two years service) you have to show that:

1. Your employer committed a fundamental breach of contract.
2. You resigned in response to the breach (so we a result of the breach).
3. You resigned without delay.

These are the legal tests. If any one of the three is missing, your claim will fail.

If you don’t get two years service until October and you wait until then to resign, your claim will probably fail under point 3. That’s even if you can demonstrate point 1, which may not be the case either. Waiting until you have two years service isn’t a valid reason to delay resigning.

You could raise a grievance to try and prolong the process slightly but even so, if a fundamental breach has been committed, there’s nothing to say they’ll commit any more (even more minor) breaches of contract that you can resign in response to in the future so you could still lose the claim.

You also need to think about how your EMPLOYER has fundamentally breached your contract as a result of you not liking how your colleague talked about you.

Whether they are called compromise agreements or settlement agreements, they are a good way of removing yourself from a post that ceases to be tenable. But, there needs to have been some sort of breach of contract or possible breach of contract otherwise you lack anything to negotiate with. The fact you may fall within the equality act is useful. If the post is upsetting your mental health, and you have a sympathetic GP, you could try to string it out for a couple of months, maybe if you are signed off with stress? That will give you time to find another post and consider your options. In the end what decides it may be how much you need the job and the pay at the end of the month. If you think your employer may be breaching contract, for example you feel you are being bullied, its always useful to speak to ACAS. They have a useful helpline. Or you could spend a couple of hundred pounds on legal advice from an employment solicitor, so at least you would know the options. Are you depressed at all, because that affects our resilience to bounce back from remarks and stuff by colleagues? Does your employer offer free counselling sessions, because they are very helpful and worth taking, you can wait a long time for counselling on the NHS. Or you could pay for counselling yourself to try and deal with the issues this has brought up, and to enable you to remain in post.

On what basis do you think a constructive dismissal claim could be made? What breach of contract has occurred?

Why did you not start mediation?

You would be expected to have taken all reasonable steps to resolve the problem internally for a constructive dismissal claim to have any chance of success. Have you been through a formal grievance process yet?

Thank you for your replies - I was signed off with stress at the beginning of the year due to work, that’s why mediation didn’t go ahead, also because I was refused someone to accompany me during mediation, I just didn’t feel strong enough! I have been on sleeping tablets and recently given an increase in Prozac as having suicidal thoughts. Like I said at the beginning, it is long and complex as are most of these things. LM wasn’t just off with me, was rude and dismissive for months before I made original complaint.

Possibly they haven't followed through on your complaint in accordance with the company's grievance process. Have a look at company policy and you will know whether they have followed through with that process re your grievance. If not, why not? The fact you were off I'll doesn't mean they can ignore it.

ill, darn autocorrect

Thanks Joe, they didn’t sort the first complaint I made back last year in my opinion, I have all the emails between me and employer detailing request for meeting, copies of notes from HR meeting’s too; I haven’t currently heard from my employer for two months over which time I also returned to full-time working, no checking in calls or emails, nothing

You need to see a solicitor if there is more to it than this. A lot of us on this thread are employment solicitors but we can't tell you what to do if we don't know everything that has happened. With what you have told us it is very unlikely to be enough to bring a successful claim of constructive dismissal even once you have your two years.

More than happy to disclose further info - there's a lot to it! Anyone able to inbox me?

I have bane-changed recently, but you kindly inboxed me previously Cloud 😀 thank you

*name-changed apologies

Stringing out stress leave is shameful behaviour. People with genuine mental health difficulties are discriminated against by employers because they are seen as too high risk, they're going to take too much sick leave etc. For you to feed into this stigma reinforces this negative stereotype, and makes it all the more difficult for those with MI who genuinely want to work.

Sort out the problem you're having, but don't abuse the system by stringing out an unwarranted absence.

Considering I have a fully diagnosed mental health illness and have experienced depression due to life events over past 25 years and have two other chronic medical conditions, I am unsure how you have come to this conclusion about me abusing the system! Seems harsh even by Mumsnet standards. You're saying that the bullying LM who started my previous serious period of depression/anxiety/stress which is all documented totally gets away with behaviour and I should be left depressed with no job? I wonder if you are LM writing this, but thanks for your comments

Thank you again for all the good advice and comments, although I am feeling very low I am being proactive and thought this site was to support others in their time of need.

I think that was a response to my saying if you have a sympathetic gp you could string it out a bit to buy you time to make a decision. I didn't quite mean it the way it came out, but my gp was very sympathetic and gave me an extra month because while I was signed off with stress after problems I found another job and rather than return to work for the final month he signed me off again on the basis I didn't want to return to work notice. Having experienced some employers attitude toward mh and disability, I really think your post is a bit crap ^Bombardier*

Thanks Joe, as if I don't feel bad enough already, I thought this was a safe place to ask for help!