Why are we ashamed of our children?

[Twinklemegan]

Following on from the Sralan's childcare questions thread, why do we feel the need to brush our children under the carpet? Why are we afraid of being questioned about our childcare arrangements, answering honestly and facing the consequences? Don't you think it's time that we stopped being so apologetic? Any good employer knows that a good employee will not let his/her home life interfere unnecessarily with his/her work. But similarly, any good employer accepts that there are times when family life has to come first and trusts their employees not to take advantage. That is my experience in any case.

I think the point is here not that women (or men) are ashamed of being questioned about their children, and I agree that the questioning is not entirely inappropriate but that the questioning should take place without the risk of the answers being used to bias your job prospects. Fair enough to have the attitude "love me love my kids or I don't want the job" but it isn't always as easy as that? What if it's your dream job? What if you just really need the job? And maybe people just feel they should say what they think their prospective employers want to hear then deal with changing attitudes once they get in.

OK, but if the answers are that actually you haven't really thought about childcare, you don't have alternative arrangements in case of emergency, you can't do the contracted working hours, then the employer would be justified in employing someone else instead wouldn't they? I am lucky that I have been allowed to work from home one day a week, but if it would impact on my ability to do the job I would never have asked.

But equally, an employer has a responsbility to work with a parent to find solutions where they won't impact on business. I think that both sides have to be upfront and grown-up about it. Childcare responsibilities need to be right up there and accepted as part and parcel of working life, therefore we shouldn't be afraid of discussing these things.

Agree wqith Hatwoman. WHEN MEN ARE ASKED ABOUT CHILDCARE at interivews, well, then I may tihnki it's all reasonable.

TM, Has your husband EVER EVER Been asked how he will cope if your child/ren are ill? Has he?

i think you will find where an employer stops getting arsey and even pedant like over 1/2 hour here or there or 1/2 day hee or there in case of that thing called "life" where shit happens frequently, then that employer will ( i would wager my first born) be rewarded 10 fold with careful work and longevity from employee - for tis very hard to find understanding employers when lifes series of unfortunate events happen.

its certainly one major factor for me.

I've just posted this comment on the other thread (I seem to be defending myself on two different threads at the moment - my fault for starting this one I suppose...)

It is the fact that you HAVE children that leads an employer to think you'll be unreliable, and I wouldn't be happy to be asked that question if I didn't volunteer the information. BUT, once it is known that I have a child, I welcome questions about my childcare arrangements because it gives me the opportunity to demonstrate why I WON'T be unreliable and to decide for myself if the employer will be reasonable in circumstances when flexibility is required.

And yes I know I said I see myself as the main carer. Of course I wouldn't say this in an interview. But once I started the job I would aim to demonstrate that some flexibility will not impact on my ability to do my job. That is what I have done in my current job very successfully.

BTW, I don't mean try to get flexibility straight away. I mean sound out the employer at interview, see if it'll work. Get to know the job and the people and then take the responsibility to make sure it won't have a negative impact on your outputs. Like I have said before, I can't just separate my life from my work like that. I like my managers and colleagues to be interested in me as a person, as I am in them. My son is such a huge part of my life I just can't imagine not discussing him at work. I don't think I would take a job where I was expected to be an automaton who switches off from life the moment I walk through the door.

It's a difficult balance though isn't it. I work for the NHS which is very flexible (too many women on the workforce not to be I guess) so we don't ask that sort of question, but it is something that both employer and propspective employee want to know. I wouldn't want to work anywhere where the chief executive expected you to work at the weekend, or where late meetings were the norm, and if I am the one interviewing, I do want to know that the candidates are committed (although I agree that if you give someone flexibility then on the whole they work harder). Also in a normal interview both sides will hype everything up a little (I'm a fantastic employee/this is a great place to work etc) so probably not the best place to find out that sort of thing.

I am struggling to find the right words to post on this thread.

I can take time off for my children because it's within the law do do so (unpaid).

I can totally and utterly see Sralans point in what he was telling Katie. In other words I need a jackass that can go here & there at the drop of a hat for me. Can you do it? There is lots of 000's at the end.

If I have to take off at the drop of a hat, someone has to take my place (by law). So it's a very hard point. He is looking for a go-getter who by this very point has to be flexible. So either you have a good Nanny or a very good family set up.

WWW - actually my husband has just been turned down for a 15 hours a week job because he couldn't make himself available (due to childcare issues) any day at any times of their choosing (different every week).

I think its sad when WOHM's (or fathers) are pressured into feeling ashamed they have kids. When I worked, I made it absolutely clear that if there was ever a conflict my dd would come first and I would drop their job with a smile on my face if dd needed me. Always kept this point foremost, but also worked hard and was as dedicated to my job as I personally could be. Never affected my chance of promotion, they gave me chance after chance to work long hours, have a 'better' job and earn a bit more but I wasn't prepared to make the sacrifices that would have cost me.

Think employees with kids have to show they can do a good job but also have moral standards, you can do both if you want to.

Am not prepared to apologise to anyone for having responsibilities outside of work and if they don't like it they can find someone who's more compliant.

KnicksOfWobbliness (love your name - are you new or a namechanger?) - I couldn't agree more. I think everyone has to decide what means more to them, and if you decide it's your DC then you really shouldn't bleat about unfair treatment re promotion etc. I don't expect special concessions to be made for me, but I do expect to be treated fairly in return for working damned hard. And I have been, so I've got no complaints on that score at all.

namechanged, used to be wobblyknicks, then WK007, still trying to find a new one that 'fits'!!

Definitely agree, if your priorities mean you miss out somewhere that's just life, as long as you're fairly treated for the work you do.

My HR manager actually moaned to me that it wasn't fair I couldn't work the hours needed to be manager of my team because I was more organised and worked harder than the guy who was appointed - but in the line of work I was in there was no way to fit in child friendly hours without seriously affecting managerial work so I smiled and said I was fine where I was

Think in some cases you can use it to your benefit that you can show you've got strong priorities and will protect them at all costs. Work may have been my second priority but my employers knew it would stay there and not slip to 3rd or 4th behind heavy nights of drinking every week or worrying about my make-up, as it did with many of my colleagues.

Well that is unless you're passed over simply because you have children. But if you've already proved yourself to be reliable and hard-working, and you're prepared to put in the extra hours or whatever (which I wouldn't be btw), then I can't see why that would be the case tbh.

x-posted btw. Was just expanding on my earlier point.

Yes KOW, I get the impression that many women out there (and it IS generally women) want to have their cake and eat it. Not possible in my book.

Yep, agree - any employer with sense will realise its better to have a great employee who may miss a few days or need some flexibility than a mediocre one who'll be there all the time.

x-posted too! Yep, and people don't realise they compromise all the time but with kids its just a bigger issue. Ie, I've always compromised getting paid for 7 days a week because I like a break, never gone for jobs I could get but would make me vomit because of the dodgy ethics etc - having dd is just the biggest in the line.

Because there are so many bad employers out there!

Its not about being ashamed, its about being realistic. I don't want to discuss my children in any way shape or form at an interview. In fact I refuse to answer by saying 'i am reluctant to answer that question' and when asked why 'becuase its common knowledge that women with young children are the most discriminated group in the workplace'