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Original poster

disciplinary for too much time off looking after sick children

22 replies

ihateworkinghere · 06/06/2007 12:36

aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrggggggggghhhhhhhhh

i have disciplinary today because i have had toomuch time off from work. i only ever have time off because either i or my daughter is ill. (she's prone to croup ffs)i live hundred odd miles away from family and dd doesn't know them anyway - even if they could come down here to look after her. now i have a discplinary for having ther temerity to take time off and look after her - when she's ill all she wants is mommy cuddles.
what the hell else am i sposed to do? it makes me so angry that people like me who are genuine when they have to have time off for dependants/dependents (sp?) get penalised the same as those that are out-and-out skivers. union were useless, the union rep was elected by management and is therefore a yes-man

has anyone else had this prob?

OP posts:
lucykate · 06/06/2007 12:48

when you say you take time off, in what way?, ie do you use up your holiday, go sick (even when its dd thats poorly), or parental leave?

i thought that as a parent, you were entitled to take parental leave, its unpaid but amounts to about 13 weeks (i think) allowed off between the ages of 0-5 iirc

mankyscotslass · 06/06/2007 12:49

No, but I used to be on the other side of the fence...I was middle management and was made by senior management & HR to discipline staff for absence from work. I took reduncancy to get out of it as soon as I could, I hated this aspect of the job as it went against everything I believed in. You need to speak to that useless Union bloke, get a copy of the company absence policy, and the carers/family policy and perhaps contact CAB. There is a certain amount of time off you are allowed to care for dependents. MY comapany used to get round this and say it was not illness/or time off caring that they were disciplining staff for, it was absence from work. And they applied it across the board so that they would not be accused of favouritsm or unfairness in specific cases. So it never mattered if your manager knew you were genuine or swinging the leg, policy was the same TBH mostly it was a slap on the wrists with a note placed in a file after a hearing, and a "plan" put in place for future absences. I am sorry you are going through this, it sucks.

Bellie · 06/06/2007 12:51

There is also a law called time off for dependants for exactly the reason that you have said.

However this is unpaid.....

What was the reason that you told them you were taking time off?

lucykate · 06/06/2007 12:54

parental leave

mankyscotslass · 06/06/2007 12:55

I am trying to remember from work (a while ago now), but i think parental leave has to be applied for in advance and taken in blocks of at least one week, it is unpaid. We did have a carers policy, and something that covered emergency short term leave for immediate family illnesses too.
What did you say when you were sick...did you take it as sick leave?

Peachy · 06/06/2007 12:58

straighforward parental leave ahs to be booked

however tere is also emergency parental leave

have a look at the ACAS website- its excellent (will find a link)

saffymum · 06/06/2007 12:58

hi, look on the ACAS website and call them for some advice before you go into the meeting.

saffymum · 06/06/2007 12:59

www.acas.org.uk

Peachy · 06/06/2007 13:00

there

ypu go

its the definition of reasonable they will challenge I suspect

pull off the leaflets and allow them to have them in advance

get a letter from your sdaughters GP if she is prone to croup

get info off OC about croup

hammer with everything you can to prove not unreasonable

FWIW would be challengeable I think if they gave you a warning

Peachy · 06/06/2007 13:00

info off pc sorry

detoxdiva · 06/06/2007 13:07

At my work we can distinguish between absences due to personal illness and those due to childrens illnesses. We call the latter 'dependants leave' and all staff are entitled to a 'reasonable' amount of this kind of time off. However, there is no firm definition of 'reasonable' so employers have to use their judgement.

I assume you have had an investigation prior to being invited in for the disciplinary where you would have been given the opportunity to discuss the reasons for each of your absences?

mankyscotslass · 06/06/2007 13:19

Agree, it would be what your Employer would class as reasonable. How often have you been of in the last 12 months? And are there other people in work who have had to take time off too? it can be a useful tool if there are others in similar predicaments.

Lolly68 · 06/06/2007 14:20

Where I work we have "dependants leave" and "parental leave". Both are unpaid or paid at employer's discretion. Dependant leave is more an emergency one whereas child is ill and you have no-one else to look after them. However this should only be 2-3 days until you arrange other care.

fransmom · 07/06/2007 13:05

hi all. ihateworkinghere is having probs with pc but will be back soon!

mankyscotslass · 07/06/2007 13:10

just trawled through some ancient paperwork from when i was working...our emergency leave was as Lolly stated too..couple of days max to allow for other arrangements to be made. Allowances were made and then once past that point staff were expected to have back up arrangements in place.....

Peachy · 07/06/2007 20:30

Lolly's arrangements are the legally required minimum, according to the ACAS bumph.

chocolatekimmy · 08/06/2007 14:08

Right, if you have taken time off for dependents (usually 1 or 2 days is considered reasonble) they CANNOT discipline you under absence.

If you have followed correct reporting procedures in line with their requirements there is nothing they can do.

If you need more than what they consider reasonable (no legal definition on this term) then they should have you in for a meeting each occasion to discuss with you and possibly say that yes you can have the extra time however anything over 2 days will count as an absence against you and therefore subject to disciplinary in accordance with their absence procedure.

There was a famous case that i will have to look at next week at work where a woman was sacked after 17 occasions (from a few hours to a few days) over a year. She was found to be unfairly dismissed as it is a statutory entitlement and she had phoned in etc every time.

Even if you don't phone in and follow procedure, that is a conduct issue to be dealt with seperately to absence

chocolatekimmy · 08/06/2007 14:11

For clarification:

Reasonable applies to the length of time for each occasion.

Rasonable cannot be applied to the amount of times

It looks as though some previous postings infer that amount of times can be considered too. You also can't compare one employee with another and say that one has loads more TOFD than everyone else therefore its unreasonable.

SarahJES · 06/02/2018 09:09

Looking at it from a different perspective, we employ someone who on a daily basis has to leave early as her children are disruptive at school... not just one child, but all three. I understand reasonable time if the children are poorly; but not when they are continuously naughty and excluded free m their day to day schooling!

daisychain01 · 06/02/2018 18:43

Why did you reactivate an 11 year old thread from 2007,Instead of starting your own?

SarahJES · 06/02/2018 19:08

New to this site and didn’t realise... clearly a debate that still is valid!

daisychain01 · 06/02/2018 19:49

It's always best to start your own thread though, especially as this is such an old thread - if you want a credible discussion- just so you know the etiquette.

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