Does this contract look odd to you? Pic attached

[SwishyHairMummy]

I've posted previously, but have name changed.

I made it very clear at interview and even in writing over email when I was asked to confirm the date I would be starting with them, to which I replied my notice period is 4 weeks and that I cannot provide a date until I'm given a contract to sign.

Last night at 1am this came through. I've taken a screenshot but I'm still a bit worried about what's set out. Would anyone be able to put me at ease or confirm my concerns?

1. Once again, no confirmation of what days I will be working. It says they will confirm 2 weeks before my start date. This worries me because I have to find childcare. Although a few childminders have said they're available, they need confirmation of what days and times. I am struggling to say this to them as they grilled me on 'if I have any children', 'how old' and 'if I have any childcare sorted, if so, which?'

I admittedly lied through my teeth at interview and said yes, I already have a childminder waiting I felt like they were trying to work out just how much of an inconvenience my DC would be.

1. It says the start date is 15th August. But I have already made it clear on multiple occasions that my notice period is 4 weeks, and that I couldn't hand in my notice and say when I could start until a contract has been signed.

Thank you to anyone who can offer any insight. Going back into the world of work seems a bit daunting and I don't feel very at ease with all of this

I think that contract terms seem reasonable. If they offered you the job and you wanted it you should have handed in your notice. My advice to you would get in contact with them and discuss your issues that 1. You haven't handed your notice in yet and your notice period is 4 weeks so starting on the 15th is impossible. 2. You need to ensure your child minder has the correct days to have your children so could they give you your working days/hours so you can give them to the child minder ASAP. Though put it in a polite way otherwise they will just get their back up. 😁 good luck OP.

That isn't a contract, it's a written offer of employment. If you really want a contract before handing your notice in then go back and ask for this, and ask them to specify working days too.

It's perfectly normal to not hand in your notice until you have the offer of employment in writing. Normal practice is for the start date to be either left blank or agreed by phone having taken notice periods into account.

It is certainly not reasonable to give you only 2 weeks notice of your working days. You would be reasonable to require 4 weeks notice and have the working days set out in the initial offer unless the offer is for a flexible and regularly changing shift pattern where you will never have more than 2 weeks notice.

It's unacceptable to say they won't reveal the rest of the Ts&Cs until after you have started. Massively unprofessional.

The basic terms in the letter could be illegal anyway as 4 weeks leave excluding bank holidays is likely to fall short of the legal minimum of 5.6 weeks including bank holidays unless your working days turn out to include all days that are bank holidays.

Unless your current employment is unbearable and you are desperate to leave, I wouldn't advise signing that or giving in your notice. I think I would rather keep looking to a different job as this prospective employer seems as dodgy as fuck and will be a nightmare to work for.

Nb asking about children and childcare in interview rings massive alarm bells for a sexist working environment. Did male applicants get the same grilling I wonder?

Oh sorry just re-read the op and had misunderstood your situation that you are returning to work from a career break rather than changing jobs so some of what I wrote won't apply.

Still looks grim tho.

I was also coming on to query the Bank Hol Stuff, although as you will only be working 18hrs a week and your contract makes no mention of your holiday being pro-rata you might be better off.

Also, I think by law that they must give you 4weeks notice to terminate your job, not 2.

But this all begs the question, do you really want to work there? They haven't covered themselves in glory so far. It's all rather shoddy.

Premier That doesn't sound right? So you think I should've handed in my notice without signing anything/getting anything in writing?

kat Apologies, I had just woken up I know it's a written offer of employment, which is sufficient. I just needed more from it in terms of what days I'm working etc, which it doesn't actually state

Imc Sorry to nit pick but isn't 4 weeks actually very generous and not at all illegal? I thought most people only got 25 days or less... Bank holidays are on top of this

Also, the employer is NHS (the same one as I'm under now), but this job is at a small GP practice. My current role is in a big London hospital

The role is ideal because although they seem a bit arse over backwards, it's a convenient location which is rare in my area. Plus the hours are well suited.

I just don't know why they won't tell me the bloody days I'm working

How am I suppose to arrange anything without knowing?! Even if I didn't have DC...

I agree that this isn't a contract. It even says that within 2 months of starting you will receive your terms and conditions of employment. This is an offer letter. Were there many other pages?

Lots of employers won't issue a contract until you start. My husband was in the same boat and told them he couldn't resign from him current job until he had a full contract. They then sent him a full contract, even though their standard procedure is to issue on day 1 of employment. I guess it depends on whether you feel confident going down that route though.

As for the childminder. You tell them that yes you have a childminder sorted but that your childminder needs dates confirming now. I would also be concerned that the letter says you'll be working x hours per week. Yes it says your days will be confirmed 2 weeks before you start but I'd feel twitchy that they may be changed weekly/fortnightly/etc.

In your shoes I'd definitely be trying to pin them down. I would send something along the following lines.

"Thank you for sending an offer letter for which I am pleased to receive and accept. As discussed I was however expecting my contract of employment in order that I can resign from my current role, of which as you know I need to give 4 weeks notice. Could you please let me know when I should expect to receive it? I would also be grateful if you could please confirm which days I will be working weekly. Whilst I have a childminder in place she does need the days confirming now in order that she can make her own arrangements. Many thanks in advance. I look forward to working with you."

I wouldn't trust them based on that offer but that's me and anyone who knows me will always say I'm risk averse.

Also it says you are entitled to 2 weeks if they decide to terminate. 2 weeks what?

Re holidays you are entitled to 28 days for full time hours. Employers can include the 8 bank holidays in this figure. They're giving you 4 weeks / 20 days but what if a bank holiday falls on one of your non working days? You should get the pro rated amount of that bank holiday but the offer letter doesn't account for that. That's what the PP is picking up on.

If it’s a GP practice you won’t be employed by NHS directly but by the GP practice. That’s probably why they come across arse over backwards!

I’d want to clarify how the 4 weeks holiday is being worked out, I.e. is it 20 days or 20 days pro rata, how will bank holidays work leave wise. My leave allowance for working PT is the full allowance of 30 days plus 8 bank hols converted into hours and then pro rata by the % I work (80%), then I use it as I need to for leave and bank hols.

I’d also want confirmation of what days you’d be working, was this not discussed at all at any point?

Does this sound okay as a reply?

Thank you for sending me an offer letter, of which I accept. I can confirm that I am able to start on the 3rd September, as I must honour my 4 weeks notice period.

I would be really grateful if you could confirm which days I will be working on. Although I have a childminder available, she needs to know which days I require her services in order for her to put her own arrangements in place.

Lastly, my offer of employment states I'm entitled to 2 weeks should the company decide to terminate my employment. Please would you clarify what this means?

Many thanks in advanced, I look forward to working with you and the rest of the practice

Employers can include the 8 bank holidays in this figure.

There can be more or fewer BHs in a holiday year. It’s not always 8.

Thank you for sending me an offer letter, of which I accept.

Wrong use of “of which”.

“....which I am pleased to accept.” is better.

Do you want to be accepting before you know what days you’ll be working though?

Titty Not really, but I'm a definite beggar in this case, and beggars can't be choosers

I feel like I'm already at a big disadvantage because of my DC.

I don't want to rock the waters any more. I just want clarification so I can know what days to ask for with childcare.

That's all I want, really

It's not too big an issue. I discussed my preferences with them twice (they brought me back for a second interview, and basically used it just to drill me on childcare, hours I desired and notice period etc), but, it is what it is.

They said they'd try to accommodate what I said would be ideal.

One of the things they asked at the second interview was "We sometimes have to cover each other if one is off. What will you do for childcare if you need to work on a day you don't have childcare?"

I said I could ask my SIL on those days, and that's why my regular days of Monday, Tuesday and half Wednesday would be ideal, as SIL works those hours too.

They seemed really happy with that, so I will be surprised if they don't offer the Monday, Tuesday and half Wednesday.

Glad you queried the two weeks notice if they want to terminate. Unusually that it doesn't match the notice you need to give them or longer.

well done for getting the job, particularly with all the chat around childcare.
the wording is rather odd
can't you ring them? have a chat.
Have you handed in your notice?
Have you got leave? do you want to start after 4 weeks?

If they indicated at interview that they would be happy with the particular working days I would amend your reply to say something like 'as previously discussed can you confirm my working days as follows' and then set out what you want

It's very badly worded. It's fine (or rather it's perfectly lawful) to provide full terms and conditions within two months of starting, but clearly it's not reasonable of any employer to expect a new recruit to give notice at a current job without knowing what hours/working pattern is being offered.

I would clarify what proportion of bank holidays you are entitled to. You are entitled to 5.6 weeks worth of holidays which may or may not include bank holidays. By my calculations you would be entitled to 100 hrs 48 mins of holiday a year (the bh may be included in that or on top of that figure)

If you send them your suggested reply then you are accepting all the shitty things they are doing and have no grounds to object. I would say "I very much want to accept but I first need clarity on the following questions before I am able to do so"

You should also note that this is a conditional offer of employment.

The conditions seem to be: satisfactory references, proof of eligibility to work in the UK and maybe something else.
So, as this offer could be withdrawn, it's relevant to the the question of when/if you give notice to your current employer.

Don't send that response. You're accepting whatever they throw at you. Don't feel bad about insisting on confirming details before you accept. It's perfectly reasonable to want all the details to be clear.

That isn’t a contract, it’s an offer letter