childcare and university

[hatter]

hello everyone,

I am very keen to do a masters degree starting in just over a year. I know I need to talk this through with the univeristy welfare people but wanted to see if any of you lot had thoughts or experience. The thing I can't think through is how to sort out child-care. Essentialy - and thankfully - it's not a financial problem, it's a logistical one. There are two big unknowns and without knowing them I fail to see how I can organise childcare - the first is, realistically, how much study time will I need to do a full-time course? I know - from past experience - that if you're efficient you can do "full-time" study in a lot less than 5 days 9-5. However, my own study time will be flexible as to when I do it, so I can work round that, to some extent. The second unknown - which is more difficult is I assume that I will not be able to get any info on seminar and lecture times until the first day of term. And, as you lot will understand, child-care doesn't just materialise out of nowhere with a couple of days warning.

DD1 will be a full-time school and DD2 will be at the school nursery for 2 and a half hours a day. If I need more time than that - and I assume I will - I'll need to arrange it before i know what I need. aaaargggh.

Anyone?

Are you sure they cant let you know days before you start? we have the same problem, although i know my days dp wont know his until later cos they are still writing the degree as they go along and its not organized yet? Dumb question i suppose, but there isnt a creche on site is there?
I think you'll prob need more than a couple of hours yes, ive booked our 2 in so we have a full study day, though we still have to study on the evenings. HAve you got any good childminders that could be flexible? Have you seen the governments chilcare website? If not, if you put childcare into your search engine it should come up with it, it gives you any places with current vacancies. Hope this helps

Hatter, I'm trying to finish my MA with DS aged 18m, it's not easy but if you have the determination to do it I'm sure you will.

I have found that I can not do a lot in a day, my study is in humanities and I have to do lots of reading but to be honest after reading for 2 hrs in a row nothing sticks to my brain any more and I need to stop and try to do something different before coming back to it. I try to study 2-3 hrs in the morning and 2-3 hrs once DS is in bed. (And he definitively needs to be at nursery during the day as otherwise I'm exhausted at night and can't work at what I consider my more productive hours).

The main problem that I have found about attending seminars is that children act according to Murphy law so if they are going to get sick, get hurt, or the nursery is going to ring you to pick the child up ASAP because is covered in a strange rash it for sure will be at the day and hour you have your weekly seminar or the monthly meeting with the supervisor. This year I could only attend half of the seminars as something unexpected happened in the rest (was fuming most of the year) besides research seminars which are not part of the course but you are expected to attend normally take place during the evening (in our case once a fortnight) and have to say I couldn't manage to attend many this year as DH travels a lot and couldn't take care of DS when required.

We have a nursery subsidy that I get every month but that is enough to pay only 2 days of nursery. Hardship funds are very difficult to get.

So it's not easy but if you organise yourself and get lots of support from your family you can do it. You will get out of it not only with a masters degree but with the conviction that you can do whatever you are determined to do.

best of luck

Hatter, if the university have a nursery on campus - use it. They're usually subsidised and they are used to accommodating students' children so they will understand that you can't commit to specific days until you get your timetable. They usually do hourly rates for students too, so you don't end up paying for a full day if you're only using 4 hours.

Although timetabling can only be done when the university knows how many students will be taking up places, this is more of a problem for undergraduate courses as they have to wait until the A level results come out and students have taken up or declined their places. For post grad courses its possible that they might already have some idea of tuition days. Its worth asking either the timetabling office or your department even this early.

Quantifying your study time is a little more difficult. Have you got a reading list? If so you can get an idea from that as obviously you know how long it takes you to read a book. And believe me, it really does vary. Also you need to think about whether you're going to be doing internet or computer based research, and if so what is the best time for you to use the computer (eg after children are in bed or during the day, when you'd need childcare). Plus when is the best time for you to use the library - during the day so you'd be needing childcare, or during the evening when perhaps dp or another relative could look after the children.

If its any consolation, I work in HE and timetabling is a gripe that comes up time after time for students with families or work commitments. It comes down to chicken and egg, unfortunately. But Good luck, enjoy the work, and just keep looking forward to graduation where you get to wear a silly hat again!

Also work in a university and have to say that although all the institutions i 've worked in have given priority to students' kids they have all wanted parents to commit to the hours they want well in advance. Given that most places only ask for a month's notice and you say money isn't an issue, could you arrange childcare for 9-5 Mon-Fri and then reduce it when you have a better idea of what it's going to be like.

You could try asking if they have any idea of time-tabling but i wouldn't hold your breath...

Hi Hatter,

I work full time and I am studying for a fulltime degree, I study for about on average 10-15hrs a week and I am aiming for a first (marks are a little under that at the moment so maybe estimate max of 20hrs per week for study time). I'm half way through my second year and I'm finding it ok. I study mainly in the evenings once dd is in bed (she is 2) and grab the odd half day if I can to study in the local uni library.

For the first few days of lectures - is it possible that you have some friends or family that might be able to help you out for the first few days? maybe your partner could take the first few days of your course off work so he could help you with your arrangements?

HTH, you can mail me offline if you want to talk more about it. (I don't often find the time to visit mn at the moment)

Hi Hatter
I actually run a Masters course and am used to mature prospective students ringing me up to ask how much time the course takes. So why not do that? I usually state that there are four modules each semester, all timetabled for three hours each. So you have to be in class for 12 hours a week. Other than that, you will need to study for the classes and work on assignments - but it's possible to do some of that in the evening and at weekends. My (new) university has an Intranet and all lecturers have to load the Powerpoint slides for their lectures a week before the lecture, so it is possible to read the notes at least if you can't get to the lecture sometimes. Most universities are very keen to get hold of mature students and I think that most lecturers would be sympathetic to the occasional childcare crisis as long as it didn't disrupt your work too much. Remember that lots of us have childcare problems too! Mature students usually work much harder than the younger ones, and postgraduates in particular can usually be trusted to get the work done on time.
I would second everyone who has mentioned the university nursery. They usually are very flexible and have a reduced rate for students. you are also close if there is a problem.
Good luck. Libra

Hi! I had my ds in the summer vac between years 1 and 2 of my second first degree (another subject - I'd done higher study in the first subject first, if that makes sense?!), so had this for yrs 2 and 3. It was a bit of a nightmare, though I did get a first, so I know it can be done! For the first year I had ds in the university nursery full time from january - i was meant to be on maternity leave for the first term, but ended up getting bored and going to lectures with him, changing nappies under the table etc!! I got a dictaphone so I could write up notes afterwards if i was having to feed him etc (and I could leave it running on the table if i had to go out). all the staff and students were very supportive, one girl even looked after him for a couple of hours a week when I couldn't get any childcare and wanted to go to a couple of lectures without him. (She wouldn't be paid but i got her chocs for christmas).
I also joined the local gym just for their creche, as it was the only place that would take them under 5months and would let you leave the building! I used that to cover the odd lecture too.
Then in the summer it all went pearshaped becasue the uni nursery building was condemned, and it moved to somewhere I couldnt' get to without a car. So I had to look around again - i got 2 days at a private nursery (they had only 2 days free), and 3 mornings at a creche run by one of the colleges. I ONLY worked in those 2 days and 3 mornings, including reading, lectures, essays etc. so whats that - about 25 hours total, but given some of that was meals, walking to/from lectures, chatting with friends etc, prob. actually 18 hours max a week.
It was the hardest 2 years of my life, and i had dreadful pnd, but i did get through it, got my first, and ds is a brilliant, sociable, bright little boy who is clearly none the worse for it!

A tip to make things easier during the term: You may get a reading list well in advance of the start of the term, if you do, make copies of all the materials you need for the full semester before the term starts, it may seem expensive to do all the copies in one go but it will save you many hrs in the future and many crisis when books has been already borrowed at the library and you need them for that special seminar. Saves a lot of stress too. (I even took them to hospital during the last month of pregnancy )

Hi Hatter. I'm at the tail end of my Masters but am doing it distance learning. I started it whilst still working and had attended evening class but am now a SAHM to DD (11 months) with number 2 expected in January.

Would different learning mediums be an option for you??

From my own experience I think I'd have found it a lot easier if the degree was in something interesting rather than work related. I had to complete 6 modules (each lasting 10 weeks), sit a 3 hour exam for each and complete a 5,000 word project for each. The final bit is a 20,000 dissertation involving a lot of research and interviews.

I presume you are studying something that you really want to so it'll be half the battle. Study time for me was pretty much crammed in just prior to the exam. The plus point about it being work related meant that I could apply much of my work experience to every project and most of the exams.

I'd give the course tutors a ring, I'm sure they'll be more than helpful

Best of Luck

Hatter, i just wanted to wish you luck with your studies. Believe me its not easy juggling life with family, work and studies.

I started a 5-year degree course (which my employers pay for) in Sept 2000 (DS1 was 10 months) and i'm currently working on my dissertation. Since 2000 I've worked full time and I'm going to cut my hours down to 25 hours, in order to complete my dissertation and to spend time with family (ds2 is 13 weeks). I can't wait until its over though, mentally i just need a break without having to worry about when the next assignment is due in! i could not have gotn thro without my family's support and understanding.

Wow - I have to say I do find it inspiring.
Not to be negative, but watch out for planning too much evening study - I found I didn't absorb much past 9:00, was just dropping off (1.5 yr old / 3 yr old, had both during the course of my degree). Most helpful were full days off given by generous husband or MIL to just go to the library and get my head down. These didn't happen very often though. I found it quite impossible to work at home, as even though I would be in another room, my attention would go to every cry or giggle.

thanks everyone. very inspiring stuff, firsts, and combining f-t degree with f-t work and kids. very impressive. I agree that I don't expect to get much done in evenings, if nothing else because that's time for me and dh. (and mn!) Distance learning isn't an option - it's a very specific course I want to do at a specific uni with particular tutors. It's work related and I do think that in some respects I'll have a head-start, but in others, I may be a bit behind. I'm also pretty determined to have the girls looked after by the person who does it now. But that might also involve a certain amount of juggling. I don't want to change things again for them. Basically I've come to the conclusion that it's doable, but horrendously expensive. and I need to decide if it's worth it. I think that the value it'll add to my cv and ability to do - and enjoy - my job will be great. Won't add much to my earning power though. Got til Oct to put my application in, so will get on the phone to the university.

Those of you in HE - when do you think would be teh best time to try to contact course directors etc? I expect September would be good - maybe back from hols but no students yet?

Yeah any time from late august i would expect keep on at them! It will definatley be worth it

I finished my MA last year, 2 weeks before dd was born, and i did find that it was definately a 9-5, at least 6 days a week... this was mainly because of the new (and very onerous) assessment procedures laid down by the ESRC who were funding my degree... we had weekly presentations to do, and weekly written assessments plus end of module essays and a dissertation.... I would never have been able to do it full time with a child/children.... But I think it depends on your seubject area and wherther you have any additional obligations, ie to external funders. I'm starting my PhD in October, full time.... so like you am trying to work out childcare, with the added difficulty that it takes me 3 hours each way to commute to uni!!!! think i'm mad! Good luck with your studies

Hi Spod, does sound like you had to work double hard. That sounds quite scarey. I did an MPhil some time ago (before kids) and i think I probably did the equivalent of 9-5 3 and a half to 4 days a week - difficult to know, as I worked (for money, I mean) in the holidays. It's been a while but my degree was quite onerous in terms of written work - 2 essays a week, but the essays didn;t actually count towards your final mark. In fact nothing did except for about 10 days of exams. Which made for a rather stressful final term. I swore I'd never do an exam again.