URGENT i need advice before tomorrow please

[mummylin2495]

My daughter and i have been cleaning a car showroom for over two years.Two weeks ago we had a letter left to say that they were thinking of getting contract cleaners in.They gave us two choices
1)to continue as we were
2) to work for the contract cleaners.
Both of these options mean our wages would be cut in half.We were given two weeks to decide ( even though after 5 days we were again asked if we had decided )My daughter and i came to the conclusion that we would give in our notice as we are not going to work for half the pay.So tonight i intended to leave our resignation letter.
We have always had our pay paid directly into the bank and had a wage slip ,but for the last few months they havent been leaving our slips for us.Last week we asked for our pay slips to be left up to date .Tonight when i went to put resignation letter on the desk there was another letter for us to say "there are no wage slips.The idea was that you were to supply a monthly invoice for cleaning services"I now havent left the resignation letter as i am so confused as to what is going on.We have been entitled to 20 days paid holidays ,they have our p45,wages go in bank,and just dont know what to do next. i did try and see the CAB but they were too busy and they dont make appointments.please tell me what i should do next.We still intend to give in a resignation letter,which is a month because we get paid monthly.i hope someone can advise me,Thankyou

Do exactly what Freckle says which I agree with. If you have worked for them for some time they cannot just ask you to accept half pay. That amounts to constructive dismissal and nthey have to go through proper procedures to dismiss you.

They cannot also suddenly change you from being employed to self employed. I expect nothing changed when they stopped sending pay slips - they didn't suddenly change the work, let you set your own hours, subcontract the work, not pay for holidays. They probably owe you wages to date, wages for you both for a notice period which is likely to be a week or two - week for each year of service?, any accrued holiday pay, compensation for not following proper procedures in terms of geting you to leave and damages for dismissal. All that may not add up to a huge amount but it's better than nothing.

I have now spoken to employment people and they advised me to phone acas again,which i have done,This lady told me that i had to put in writing about grievance and go throught this procedure,.She also said that regards to the wage slips and the fact they left the letter saying about "invoicing " them ,we should of been told that they were changing .She thinks a case of constructive dismissal,but we cant start that while we are still there.Also had it reconfirmed that we onlyhave to give a weeks notice if we want. Now i have to write another letter.Can anyone do it for me ? or give me an idea,im not sure how to word it,especially to include the grievance thing

freckle and xenia thankyou for your adviceim sure with all the help from everyone i will go through the correct procedure.

If you go to your local CAB, they have a leaflet which sets out clearly the grievance procedure - what you must do, what your employers must do, etc.

If you want to take a claim to an employment tribunal, remember that you must submit your claim within 3 months of the problem arising.

Ideally get someone who knows more about it than me to do the letter.

I would say something like

"We were surprised to receive your note last night asking for an invoice for our services. As you know we have always been employees and you have paid us wage slips. No change to the employment of either myself or my daughter has ever been agreed. The arrangement has always been that of employee and employer. We need wage slips supplied to date as you have omitted to do this for the last few months without our agreement.

You have suggested our pay may be cut by half or new arrangements put in place. We do not agree to this and have been advised that pay should continue to be paid to us as now. If not, then we will need to invoke the company grievance procedure to ensure this matter is sorted out amicably. We will for now continue to come to work but it must be on the basis of payment of our agreed wages."

On the other hand if you have resigned already and did leave the letter then I suppose may be a different letter needs to be done referring to that?

thankyou xenia,no we havent given i our notice but will do do tonight.We were under the impession that we had to give one months notice as we get paid monthly,but it seems that is not the case.I will use most of your letter but not the bit where it says we will continue to work etc. thankyou so much for taking the problem (The ironic thing is i only went there to help them out until they got new cleaners because they were in a jam ! )

Usually people say it's better to be sacked than give in notice but you might feel you're not prepared to stay even if they keep your wages as they are. If you give in notice then you're right it's a week unless you have been there for a good few years (unless there is a written contract which says later).

you are quite right ,even if they changed their minds we dont feel we could stay there now under any circumstances.What price loyalty,honesty ? We once found a mechanics thick gold bracelet and he left us a box of chocolates and a letter of thanks for "being so honest " wasnt that nice.But its all spoilt there now.

i dont want to be sacked ,i have never been in that situation for the whole of my life .I would feel very upset.

Something is missing on here - if the work is being put to contract cleaners then the new company have to take you on under TUPE (transfer of undertakings legislation) and on no less favourable terms. They have to pay you the same and give you at least the same terms and conditions and also continuity of service. They can't legally pay you less, the only thing not protected would be pension if you had one. They could also offer you another contract which is better and you could of course sign up to that. This is a whole different ball game.

As others have rightly pointed out, you need to put in a formal grievance (Xenias wording is good) about this as you are technically employees.

Don't worry about going through the process or being sacked (they can do that anytime but whether its lawful and fair is a different matter!) as you do have redress through the tribunal system. Just ensure you do everything correctly - and don't be bullied into resigning.

i have only just seen your message and appreciate it but its too late !!!! we have put our notice in,i put a lot of xenia,s wording in it ,so we will wait and see what transpires now.thanks.