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Employers and Trade Union

32 replies

HeavenIsNotAPlaceAtWork · 25/07/2018 09:35

Going through some forced changes at work, my employers will not acknowledge the trade unions. Is this legal?

OP posts:
cloudtree · 25/07/2018 20:40

I can't advise properly OP without seeing the contract.

But in summary:

TUPE probably didn't actually apply to transfer the recognition agreement - it will only have done this if your undertaking retained its identity after the transfer distinct from the rest of the new employer (this is a broad summary of a complex point). It doesn't sound like this is the case.

Your new employer might have voluntarily recognised (but they don't seem to accept this so its unlikely)

The recognition agreement is unlikely to be incorporated into your contract even if it did transfer (although it might have been - you'd need to read your contract to say whether the recognition agreement is listed as a collective agreement which has been incorporated). Collective agreements are not automatically incorporated.

Even if it is incorporated it would then need to specifically refer to you having a right to be accompanied at any meeting not just those where you have a statutory right to be accompanied - the standard recognition agreement doesn't contain this wording and so it would need to have been specifically negotiated in and expressly set out. It is likely to have wording in about the employer negotiating with the union (but not being bound to reach agreement)

Even if expressly incorporated and containing the right wording it would only be a breach of contract. This in itself is not necessarily something which gives you much bargaining power.

There is no statutory right to be accompanied at this sort of meeting.

Upshot - you are highly unlikely to have any legal right (statutory or contractual) to be accompanied. If your union won't add their weight to the argument so that the employer agrees just to get rid of the hassle and the employer won't budge then there is not much you can do apart from object. If they ultimately dismiss you could try to argue that although you have no contractual right it affected the fairness of any dismissal. Whether you are successful on that would depend on how much difference it would make to have representation - likelihood is that it wouldn't actually make much difference but you never know.

cloudtree · 25/07/2018 20:41

Cross posted with Flowery's far more succinct explanation!!

HeavenIsNotAPlaceAtWork · 25/07/2018 20:45

I can't answer that flowery but the union have said it transferred but they can only attend meetings regarding negotiations or disciplinary.

OP posts:
cloudtree · 25/07/2018 20:48

OP I'm not sure we can help you any more.

HeavenIsNotAPlaceAtWork · 25/07/2018 20:55

By saying I can't answer that, I meant I don't know! I know there is a collective agreement but I've not seen it and can't tell you what it says regarding the rights of the TU.

I will be on to my regional office. Thanks for your advice, I didn't mean to sound vague but flabbergasted at the lack of legal support my employers will allow to be heard.

OP posts:
flowery · 25/07/2018 22:08

”flabbergasted at the lack of legal support my employers will allow to be heard.”

Don’t be so shocked. It would be very unusual for an employer to allow unions in these types of consultations if they don’t have to do so!

daisychain01 · 26/07/2018 05:43

Presumably, OP, you can continue to receive Union support, advice and guidance just not concurrently during consultation meetings. So theoretically for any decisions that might need to be made by the employee as a consequence of consultations, you as the employee could argue you need time to seek Union guidance and be given time to take your query or concern to them outside the meeting.

Not ideal but often there are work around to these things, it's a question of ensuring flexibility on both sides, employer and employee

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