It shouldn't be this hard to get a job.

[Changemyname18]

Hello, looking for support and advice. I returned to work this year after 7 years being a full time mum. I'm mid 40s, solid school results, redbrick 2:1 degree in a traditional subject, then worked for big 4 accountancy firms for 16 years. Never completed chartered exams, opted for different department which suited me better. I was at the top of my grade, and happy with my lot, because of the people I worked with and the work flexibility. Didn't go back after 2nd child, as childcare was logistically impossible due to the demands of my husband's employment. I enjoyed my time at home, and did lots of school and other volunteering when both kids at school. I got an admin job at the start of this year, found the work straightforward, but the team were great. Really felt like I proved I could still do work. I worked hard and got great feedback. But I couldn't stay there, as i need term timd only. But I've now been applying for roles in admin in schools, wanting term time work, and I'm not getting anywhere. I get interviews, but feedback has been 'you are over qualified', 'you don't fit with our school profile, 'we have a candidate who is a better fit for our school, we have filled the space internally', 'you've never used SIMS'... What else can I do to persuade somewhere to employ me? I pick up computer systems quickly, SIMS can't be that hard. Running out of Sept start opportunities. How did the rest of you get that elusive term time job? Apologies for long post, didn't mean to rant this much.

I started as a school dinner lady, ended with an admin job for 26 hours a week.
I was the internal candidate. It will happen a lot in schools

yeah... my school has a gal who does MSA + admin job (paid different rates, I hope; she was MSA for a while before got the admin role). She was a legal secretary before, her admin qualifications are formidable.

Our school also had a fully qualified 25 yrs experience ex-nurse working as LSA to child with SN (including physical needs). Very over qualified is very common.

Becoming a teacher because you want to be off in the holidays is not going to happen. Maybe if you have years of lesson plans, teaching resources you may just be able to have some time off, but the work during term time and the prep involved will have to be done during school holiday times. Have you thought about working in adult education? IME, there are quite a few adults who want to do the AAT, especially with the apprenticeship qualifications. Many of the posts are sessional, so TTO and you can decide how many hours you want to do. You do need up to date experience though, so you may have to do some additional training or volunteering to get your skills up to date. Can you do some accounting for your partners business?

I’m just intrigued as to why you are even chasing a term time job when you don’t the need money. By your own admission you find admin work boring so I doubt very much that it’ll satisfy you for long. Take a moment and spare a thought for those women who really need the money and have no family to call upon for childcare and cannot afford to pay for childcare while they are working. Those are the women who need the term time jobs that very rarely come up. Not you. If you really want to set a good example go and volunteer somewhere until you are willing to be a bit more flexible about working hours. And for info - working parents who aren’t able to work term time care about their family too.

And just to add to the chorus, my friend has a degree in marketing and a Masters degree. She has a term time only admin job in a school. You're not overqualified. You just don't have up to date experience and you don't know the systems. Once you get past a certain age, experience counts over qualifications gained a decade ago.

Unless you work for Nan organisation that only operates termtime, I don't think you'll have much luck. A private organisation that is open all year round would have to find someone to do your job every few weeks. I doubt many employers would be happy to do that. It certainly wouldn't be any good for roles I've recruited for.
Schools, colleges, maybe nurseries are your best bet.
Part time jobs can be really difficult to find, especially if you're not looking at a minimum wage level eg care or bar work.

Some local authorities and government agencies may offer term time but it might be by negotiation. So apply first then ask later. It might be offputting if you say it straight away.

I agree with many PP. 7 years is a long time out of the workplace, and if you’re determined to do term time only then you’re seriously limiting your options.

I’m a teacher and the admin term time only jobs where I am are pretty low paid and might not provide the mental stimulation you’re looking for. There are some more interesting and challenging non teaching roles, but you’d be expected to work quite a few weeks during holiday times.

As for thinking of retraining as a teacher... well, forget it if you’re thinking it’s just school hours. Teachers are usually in work by 7.30, 8am at the latest, and often don’t leave til 5.30/6 so you’d be looking at wraparound care every day, and that’s not starting on the hours you’d do in the evenings, weekends and school hols.

In your position I would personally accept that if you want a good job, you’re likely to need to use holiday care some of the time.
It doesn’t have to be holiday clubs if your children aren’t into that. My kids are grown up now but when they were school age and I needed to work during their hols, we employed a local girl who was home from uni for the summer. She needed the money, we needed the care and it was win win, because my kids enjoyed hanging out with her. They’d outgrown childminders and weren’t into club activities so this was ideal

I just want to put it out there that I have a 7 year gap and I've just been offered a part time NHS admin job so it can be done. I'm unsure of whether to take though for similar reasons as in maybe term time would be better and not wanting to put the kids in holiday clubs etc.

"How did the rest of you get that elusive term time job?". Probably they were the correct person for the job. I think the feedback you have received has been honest, maybe you just were not the person for the job and potential employers thought so and were not threatened by your "education". I can also understand why they would promote within. You do seem a little miffed why you are not getting any of these "elusive term time jobs"

7 years is a long time, i was out for 2 years.or 4 years back to previous role but I did have my dm as childcare

Could you do your chartered exams, then you'd be able to freelance?

As Beebies just said, the NHS is screaming out for admin staff. I got a very family friendly 22 hours when I went back. I was then able to work overtime during term time and take the school holidays off as time in lieu.

OP, I promise I mean this in the nicest possible way but if one of your primary aims is to set an example to your children, I'm not sure getting a low paid part time admin job in a school while dad carries on as the main full-time breadwinner is going to challenge their thinking that much...

I really don't mean that in a nasty way (I'm also a mum looking for a part-time admin job!!) I just think it's worth looking carefully at what your motivations are.

Maybe voluntary work might suit you better if you don't need the money (your kids probably wouldn't even know if was unpaid if you just called it "work"!) Or have you looked at the civil service/other public sector roles? They tend to be pretty good for part-time/flexible working.

The Big4 are hellish places to work these days in terms of culture, but they offer return to work schemes for people in your position and I know that at least some of them do term time contracts now. The hours during term time are likely to be demanding, depending on your department, so you may need to get some support with childcare, but at least it would be a role that uses your skillset and which you seem to have enjoyed previously? Which department did you work in?

I don't know of anyone who is hired for their "brain" skills and work term time only unless it is the hours you agreed with your existing /past employer or freelancing. I was lucky, I got signed off school hours only contract work from my ex-employer but still had to work school holidays and wasn't permanent. I think you might have to re-think about holiday clubs if you don't want to leave the gap any longer (Think about pension too, I now have to put quite a lot in now just to make sure I will survive at my old age after 9 years gap, don't feel like working in my 70s!)

Every (exaggerating) primary school age mums want exactly what you want, many of them just like you, very academic, have professional experience, probably great communicators, have less career gap, may be already know the staff in school etc. Imagine the competition! I did not even try to find one of these term time only jobs because I know it's out of my reach (I am a terrible communicator). Nevertheless you should not stop trying, sometimes you just have to be at the right place at the right time. Good luck!

This is potentially controversial but I find it hard to understand why professionally educated women with reasonably high earning potential don't want to work in their original professional jobs. Why has it got to be school hours ? What's wrong with Using childminders for after school pick ups and/or breakfast clubs? School age dc with no special requirements usually are fine in these a few days a week and the cost is not prohibitive on professional salaries.

Obviously if they don't want to or need to work that's different, but if a job is desired then why has it got to fit into school hours?

As you are so rich and don’t need to work why not work full time and pay for childcare or get husband to split on school holidays with you ?!?! I would NOT employ someone with this attitude sorry as you wouldn’t be commited enough.

Know exactly where you’re coming from Changemyname18 because I am in a similar position. I took a 14 year Work gap, not returning to work between pregnancies. My husband earns enough to keep us going. My earnings certainly help with costs of the family but they aren’t essential.

I have a friend in term time admin and she works for similar reasons to those you and I have, and she also says hubby would question her more about her frivolous purchases if she wasn’t earning anything (even though he earns a bomb).

I have actually been back to work for 7 years in a great part time admin job since my 14 years off. I am leaving the job because it is very busy in the summer months, and my colleagues take all the half terms and Easter holidays. Holidays are a battle. The intrusion on my life for low pay seems not worth it to me.

I am thinking about temping. My husband would call it contracting. I have a friend with a great mind who trained as a city tour guide. They can now do foreign visitors tours privately so choose as and when they work.

You don’t at all sound up-yourself!! It appears to me that you are happy to show that you’d be committed and settled in a cosy part time term time job, and that you have got brains so you would be a very capable employee. You’re not ambitious at the moment and you’d be loyal and responsible in any job.

It seems volunteering more regularly in school is a good starting point. Or you could temp in term time, not take contracts in the summer, and accept that when you do work the longer day means you have to have child care after school.

Low paid jobs aren’t always fun because there isn’t enough autonomy. And I hear that getting time off in term time only jobs can be near on impossible. Perhaps you could think about doing something fun and working for yourself? I would love to also come up with such an idea!!

Good luck OP.

You haven’t got any experience in school admin. Because the jobs are sought after schools can get someone who has. It’s that simple.

How come you don’t NEED to work?? If your partner/ husband earns enough to keep you, then the simple answer is to use childcare when necessary? Term time jobs in my area are realty like gold dust; maybe you would be better off volunteering in a chosen field and work your way up from there?

You're best off choosing a school and getting to know it well and volunteer a bit first. If you haven't got school admin experience, that will be your way in. In my experience of schools, even non teaching jobs are sought after and can be tough too. Definitely go in with a humble attitude. School is a different world to other jobs and requires its own experience. It doesn't matter how many PH D's someone had - it counts for little.

This is potentially controversial but I find it hard to understand why professionally educated women with reasonably high earning potential don't want to work in their original professional jobs. Why has it got to be school hours ? What's wrong with Using childminders for after school pick ups and/or breakfast clubs?

Not wanting to.

DH and I work professionally and flexibly in our pre kids sectors but we aren't where we would be if we had continued on the same track. We do this so we can do the large majority of school runs and holiday childcare ourselves (the rest is various reciprocal arrangements with family members). Because we'd rather earn less but have our children looked after primarily by us and loved ones, and use other forms of childcare because we think the children would benefit from it rather than because we have to. If we hadn't been able to continue in our sectors in this capacity, I don't think we'd have prioritised pre child career continuance over spending the amount of time we want to with our kids.

If you prefer to do things differently to how we do, fine. It works for you, it wouldn't be our preference.

In your case OP I would've said the 7 year gap but you've worked since, so to some extent that solves the problem. I'd actually be tempted to volunteer if I were you. As you don't need the money. And it might lead to something you'd find more fulfilling.

Lie about your education.

I have been in education for a loooong time (previously SLT) and my ideas for you would be:

Clerk to governors
School bursar
Council admin role
Becoming a midday supervisor, then applying from within.

I do second what previous posters have said: schools are unique worlds, all about the children and outside experience is often not all that relevant. I had worked in another graduate role before teaching - it was no help whatsoever!

Go in to school admin because you want to provide services to children, families (especially the ‘difficult’ ones) and do whatever the HT needs to make the school run smoothly. Not just because the hours suit.

Just a teeny bit of ego comes across in your post and there isn’t really all that much space for that in schools - unless you are in SLT of course!