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Original poster

Annual Leave

72 replies

newmobile · 12/07/2018 22:36

New team of 14 people to manage. Held my first team meeting and suggested that people try and talk to each other first before booking leave over the summer holidays so if one team members wanted say a Friday off then check with their collegues to see if there are enough people in to cover the work on that particular Friday. Within half an hour had an email from senior management saying the team have made a complaint and that I was wrong to do this as I am the manager and I should deal with leave requests not the team. Am I really in the wrong ????

OP posts:

user7896 · 12/07/2018 22:39

I don't think our wrong .Are they all adults ?
I mange 4 and they all have to negotiate with each other including me.

user7896 · 12/07/2018 22:40

posted two soon " our" should have been "your"

notacooldad · 12/07/2018 22:45

I work in a team of 10 and two people can be off at the same time. We have an annual leave book and on one side of the page it is set out in volume with the dates of the month so you put your name on the days you want off. On the other side you write your name, the inclusive days you want and the date you requested it. It then gets signed off by the manager with the date it was approved.
Our system seems to work well.
I'm guessing your team don't like change or new ways if doing things!

Caroline19834 · 12/07/2018 22:46

Are there any existing rules or practices in situ that they may consider you are trying to ignore?

Fevertree · 12/07/2018 22:48

I wouldn't like to be told to talk to my colleagues. Surely you know the number of people who can be off on any one day, you have a system for requesting leave, and it's first come first served?

OmnishamblesOverHere · 12/07/2018 22:49

We use a spreadsheet, saves having to speak to others. Same principle though. Then the manager can approve or reject applications at a glance.

MrsMoastyToasty · 12/07/2018 22:49

I think you ought to take control of it. For example a maximum number of people can be off at once and any requests after that will be rejected. Keep a planner so that staff can see at a glance if there are days free.

TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 12/07/2018 22:50

i agree - it is your job not theirs.

NorthernSpirit · 12/07/2018 22:50

Not wrong at all. The team sound like they can’t organise themselves. It’s a shame they have ‘told tales’ they sound like a bunch of children.

ProudThrilledHappy · 12/07/2018 22:53

I am in a team of 12 with only 2 allowed off at one time. All holiday requests go through the manager who then puts the approved dates on a big A2 calendar in her office.

To play devils advocate, we don’t discuss leave among ourselves as there were a couple of team members who would put pressure on others to cancel or amend their dates so they could take them instead.

This could have happened before and be why your team complained?

NT53NJT · 12/07/2018 22:53

My staff request a day off and I see if we can cope with workload with other staff who are in before accepting/denying leave.

Someone requested tomorrow off but we woyld struggle in the morning without them so I suggested half a day and we mutually agreed....I'm a nice manager :)

Original poster

newmobile · 12/07/2018 22:58

Thanks for the different view points. my work phone just beeped and there is an email from a union rep. The union stance is I am effectively saying that I will refuse leave unless the team sort out their own cover arrangements and that it is not up to them to do this I need to adjust the workload to reflect the staff I have in so that may mean postponing work or cancelling it. I need to have a good think continue to share view points please.

OP posts:

sillywitch · 12/07/2018 23:03

It's up to our managers to manage holiday requests. I would be put out asking 13 people if I could take holiday at a certain time. What a waste of work time! Surely the manager would have a central calendar so would take two seconds to glance at it to check, first come, first served?

TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 12/07/2018 23:10

You need to do some maths to work out how many need to be off at the same time to allow everyone to take their leave, and still run the business.

Then, first come first served - go through request 1 to request x, as soon as the request comes through that means they can't have the time off, decline it. Keep working through, until you get to the end. Make sure everyone's leave is visible in some way so that people can see before they request it.

Caroline19834 · 12/07/2018 23:13

*there is an email from a union rep
There you go, then. If you haven't followed bargaining procedures and your workplace has a union that is recognised, you are acting illegally by not consulting the union.

notacooldad · 12/07/2018 23:17

What's wrong with the system before you came?
If it wasn't broke what are you trying to fix?
You say it's your first team meeting and you are implanting change.
Do you think that you have made them uneasy by doing this in your first meeting. Maybe they feel like you are about to change everything.

Personally when ive taken over somewhere I tend to sit back and see hiw things are working and why unless there is a serious issue.

TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 12/07/2018 23:17

In the nicest possible way, this is basic management...can you ask to go on a management course?

Onwhitehorses · 12/07/2018 23:20

I think there are probably too many people in your team to work the system you want. I've managed a small group that way, and we work like that now, but there are only 4 of us and we just email round to make sure it fits for everyone before booking leave. Any clashes, we just talk it through. There's lots of give and take.

A bigger team (particularly one with the mentality of going to senior management rather than talking to you) will probably need more of a framework to work within. So, rules about how many people can be off at any one time, amount of notice for bookings, the rules around popular times like Christmas and summer hols etc. If people are wanting to book summer leave now, thats very late to be planning it! Maybe a hybrid system which is first come first served for off peak holiday time, but a discussion with colleagues around Christmas and summer leave. It's always better if they sort it themselves, but maybe this group wont ever be able to do that. Best of luck!

comeherepetal · 12/07/2018 23:23

For my team, the expectation is they cover eachothers holiday, but if they can't they tell me and I step in to support/sort.

Works fine where I am. Ultimately it is not their 'responsibility' to cover each other but my expectation is they do this with my support there if needed.

dinosaurkisses · 12/07/2018 23:23

Union rep has come in a bit heavy handed there- annual leave is to be mutually agreed between the business and the employee so it’s not unreasonable to refuse leave on the basis of staffing levels, as long as it’s not a result of chronic understaffing and staff can still use their entitlements.

I think the fact that you’re a new manager to this team might be relevant- what was the arrangement within the team before?

It does sound a bit like you’re trying to avoid being the bad guy by making the staff sort it amongst themselves. It’s not fair when a strong or loud character could potentially get first dibs because other quieter staff don’t feel they can make a fuss. It also opens up arguments of whose need for leave is greater which is a headache you don’t want.

I’d suggest a spreadsheet as outlined above- we had one in our small and very busy team and it worked well. We could allow for two people off and if there was a third the manager would review the request and see if based on who else was off and what work was on, whether it was possible.

TOADfan · 12/07/2018 23:25

We would always have it first come first served but it presents an issue if someone needs a late day off for something important eg a funeral etc. Not everything is planned months in advance. We also had issues where the same people would book every Saturday off months in advance.
It's a hard one to juggle. In our work place it was first come first served but at manager discretion eg if the same person booked every Saturday off but someone else needed it for holiday etc if they had no good reason we could cancel their leave. Usually we would put it to the team and it would be up to them to come to an agreement, usually someone would trade a day off if someone else really needed it and occasionally the manager would need to take the hit and let an extra person off and clear it with higher management.
I don't think you have personally done everything wrong just depends on how your work place is run.

Original poster

newmobile · 12/07/2018 23:25

I was trying to be that "nice" manager let's all work together as a team . I am based on the same office as them have a desk in thd same office wanted to be approachable and encourage independence in them and see my team flourish all united in reaching our goal. let's all discuss problems and issue together it's a new piece of work to them but I have done this job before with another team who didn't want me to leave so am I really that unreasonable? ??

OP posts:

Caroline19834 · 12/07/2018 23:26

Union rep has come in a bit heavy handed there
Perhaps the union rep has gone in heavy handed in response to the OP going in heavy handed?

Oblomov18 · 12/07/2018 23:26

I am very shocked that you mishandled this so badly. I agree with a pp that this is basic management skillls.
Your communication is clearly at odds with the team.
Did you not check before announcing this? What the previous procedure? How did you not know re union argument?

chatwoo · 12/07/2018 23:26

I don't think what you are saying is unreasonable, but know this can wildly vary, depending on the workplace.

Your workplace seems to not be open to that, so I guess you will have to track all the leave requests yourself and manage workload allocations accordingly.

Presumably that may involve rejecting requests if too many people are already off that day?

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