Giving a basic reference?

[Springersrock]

DH and I run our own business.

We had a new employee start with us a few months ago - total nightmare.

He was initially on 3 month probation, which we extended for a further 3 months. We gave him lots of support, lots of reviews and help, main problem was that he was a completely work-shy know-it-all - nothing really improved so we let him go

A couple of weeks ago I got a reference request

I replied with a basic reference, confirmed he’d worked with us and the dates

They came back asking for more information so I listed his responsibilities.

Again, they’ve come back asking for more information

I can’t in all honestly give him a good reference, but not sure what I can say

You by law can

1. Not give a reference.
2. Give a basic reference.

You do not have to give anymore than you have and I’d simply reply saying I have given you all I feel revelant to this applicant.

Tbh they are harassing you

It is now more standard for employers to give a standard basic reference than anything else. Just say you have chosen to give a basic reference and refuse to engage further.

What WM said. You standing ground will say all you need to say.

Thanks

Yes, they are hassling me

I’m surprised they haven’t read between the lines tbh

He’s gone to an apprenticeship college and they’re trying to find him a placement. If I don’t give a proper reference I’m ‘ruining his chances’

pffftt... he'll have to learn the hard way to prove himself, then

State that your company policy is to only give basic information. That’s perfectly normal.

Thanks

I told them previously that we don’t give detailed references, that’s when the cane back with the ruin his chances spiel.

They keep emailing and have phoned a couple of times

I’ve replied again today that I won’t be providing anymore details than I have already

I really can’t give him a good reference, he was an utter nightmare.

He also lied massively to them about why he left to make us sound like complete arseholes so god knows why they’re so keen on getting a reference from us anyway.

He was actually finally sacked for trying to jam a screwdriver into one of our machines to try and bypass the safety mechanisms so he didn’t have to keep putting a guard up and down - twice. The first time we warned the life out of him, 2 days later he did it again

Why are you protecting him?

Since they have kept hassling you I would tell them the truth but be sure to be factual and straightforward.

You are allowed to be truthful on a reference. You can say you had to extend his probation, that he was put on support plan etc.

It's a myth that you can't give a bad reference. You can be true, fair and accurate.

We have told the college exactly what happened - that his probation was extended, his behaviour was awful and why he was finally sacked.

If they ask again I’ll send something like:

“X worked here between a and b dates, his duties were 1, 2, 3. His initial probation was extended before being dismissed for gross misconduct”

I’m just a little wary, I’ve been looking into it a bit and have read all sorts of conflicting advice so initially stuck with the basic reference

I advise on employment law for a living.

I'm not sure what else you could say anyway. Say that to them. Say I have been truthful and accurate, there is nothing else to say. Ask them to stop harassing you.

It’s absolutly a myth that you can’t give a bad reference. What the fuck would be the point of them if legally you could only say nice things?

You do have to be truthful.

**
“X worked here between a and b dates, his duties were 1, 2, 3. His initial probation was extended before being dismissed for gross misconduct”**

^That is a perfect response

They must have their misgivings about him to keep insisting on increasing amounts of detail. Most recruiters use references as the 'tick in box' check that the candidate's claims about their dates and role match the reference. The candidate's performance at interview should give them confidence and it sounds like you ex employee is flakey enough for them to have doubts.

You shouldn't feel forced into divulging any more than you are willing to give, even if the recruiter insists. References aren't a legal obligation, all that's required is that if they are provided they must be factually accurate.

I think you've done the right thing by giving some basic information and no more.
Legally a reference must be truthful, so avoiding reference to subjective stuff like "he was a nightmare" is wise, although it's perfectly acceptable to say he was dismissed for gross misconduct if this was the case.
Don't let these people harass you. As PP said say it's company policy to provide a basic reference then ignore them.

*Truthful in the factual sense, to protect you and the former employee

Thanks all!

They’re driving me mad now

So I got into work this morning and they bloody well phoned again.

I’ve emailed the above and made it clear I won’t be sending anything else.

I think they’ve got a placement for him and need to give them a reference or they won’t take him. I’m amazed my refusal to give a detailed reference hasn’t set alarm bells ringing tbh

Good for you.

"I’m amazed my refusal to give a detailed reference hasn’t set alarm bells ringing tbh"

Indeed. They must be desperate lol