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"Flexible" flexible working

17 replies

drspouse · 28/06/2018 11:51

I have contacted my union about this but just wondering if anyone else has any advice.
I work 0.8 and occasionally I need to switch my day off. About half the time this is at my employer's request (e.g. internal meeting) and the other half it's mine/external (large external meeting that nobody's going to rearrange for me, seeing a client for whom it's the only day etc.).
This is probably 4-5 times per year. It's almost always maybe 2 to 6 weeks in advance so I arrange childcare, or DH takes the day off, or worst case I confirm or refuse at the last minute. For example I just confirmed I can go to a morning meeting next week on my regular day off but can't attend the afternoon due to DD's nursery only having space for her in the morning. Everyone fine with that.

I'm in a professional role with no real fixed hours but I'm not the only person across the organisation who has such a part time pattern. There are 2 in my group with the same line manager and the other one's DP doesn't work.

My DH does work so I can't guarantee that a switched day is covered by childcare. I have in the past had to refuse e.g. to deliver an internal training (which could be on any day but they chose my day off) because the date booked was so many months ahead I couldn't guarantee that I'd get childcare nor could my DH guarantee to take the day off. This has been a cause of friction even though I made this plain both at the start of my flexible working and more recently.

Long story short... if you are in a professional job with no fixed hours, but you work part time... how does your HR deal with you changing your part time pattern temporarily? They have made up some guff about how this can't be accommodated unless I request to change my contract for a week and change it back?
If I could find some examples of how this works elsewhere it might be possible to point out to my HR that they don't know what they are talking about.
I am also pretty sure they are irritated because I can't be as flexible as some in their direction (I also am not flexible in my own direction if that makes sense e.g. I've had to skip really interesting meetings due to no childcare where I'd loved to have gone but they don't see that!). I think ideally they want me to just work my day off with no time off to compensate, whenever they need me to, but probably would prefer me not to if it's e.g. something that improves my own CPD but isn't going to feed in to my work in the next month or two!

(Across my own organisation, I get the impression that most line managers do this informally but mine won't).

OP posts:
flowery · 28/06/2018 16:01

Don't understand, how do HR even know when you take a different day off than normal? Why are you debating it with HR at all? If your manager wants you to change days for an internal meeting or your employer (not you) needs you to change days for an external meeting or for a client, then how they administer that is surely their problem?

drspouse · 28/06/2018 21:19

That would be my thought but my current line manager seems to think it is an HR issue.

OP posts:
flowery · 28/06/2018 21:31

But as you are switching for work reasons let your manager worry about it with HR.

Moneyhelping · 28/06/2018 21:34

We don’t even tell HR just make sure our calendars are up to date

Lovewinemorethanhusband · 28/06/2018 21:37

I can't see how this is a HR issue, I regularly change my working days to fit in with my work meetings etc my line manager swaps it around HR aren't involved at all

SmallestInTheClass · 28/06/2018 21:41

I do this, but only 3-4 times a year for essential meetings. My manager appreciates they have no right to ask me to work and I'd refuse if I couldn't get childcare, but I've always managed so far. Usually it's for meetings or training I want to be at for my own benefit anyway. I always get a day back in lieu and wouldn't do it otherwise.

BendingSpoons · 28/06/2018 21:42

My line manager will just write changes in her diary and I am not generally expected to change days unless I choose to e.g. to attend a course for my benefit. I have fixed working days agreed with my managers but no idea if HR know which, I suspect probably not, probably just that I am 0.6.

SmallestInTheClass · 28/06/2018 21:42

And I should say, HR is never involved.

FogCutter · 28/06/2018 21:43

Maybe I'm being a bit dense but I can't see what the issue is here, most p/t staff I know have set working days but will move their working days round a bit either at the employer's request or at the employees request e.g if there is an important meeting on a non working day which the employee is happy to attend and take another day off instead.

So what is the problem your boss or HR have with your current arrangement?

Ginmakesitallok · 28/06/2018 21:44

I don't have to tell hr, I just let my manager know. As long as I'm working my contracted hours then she's not bothered when I do them. If I started being rigid about my hours then the organisation would suffer more than I would.

squidgesquodge · 28/06/2018 21:48

HR never involved either at previous firm or current employer. I think officially I should have taken TOIL within a week of doing the overtime but neither insisted on that so I just took it when it suited me. At both, I had someone who I informed of these arrangements with as, whilst both trust me to do the right amount of hours overall, I felt better actually telling someone that, for example, because I'm working this Friday at work's request, I'm taking a Tuesday in August off.

Stinkbomb · 28/06/2018 21:48

This doesn't need to be an HR issue, you are being flexible to accommodate your employers needs - what's the problem with just swapping days when & if required? I let my team do it all the time - for their personal reasons rather than business ones!

ScottishDiblet · 28/06/2018 21:50

I do this. I work the hours of 3 days but across the week (usually over 4 days but sometimes over 5 depending on childcare). As long as I work the required number of hours and let my boss and the team know when I’m going to be in and what cover I’ve arranged for when I’m not there is no issue and no need to keep HR informed.

BackforGood · 28/06/2018 22:26

I have my 'base days' which are my true working days. Quite often (well, only perhaps once every few weeks - may 6 - 8 times a year?) there are particular things that are set up on days that are normally not my working days, and - as in my case I no longer have childcare to worry about - I am usually quite happy to swap these. The reason I am happy to do them is because sometimes it makes my job a bit smoother, but, mostly because it then gives me other days that I am then 'owed' by work, which I then take when it suits me. It's all about give and take.
However, HR don't get involved - this is time management by my line manager. She is aware, we both keep a record, and nether side takes the mick. She totally respects my right to 'not be able to work' on my non-working days.

drspouse · 29/06/2018 11:49

as you are switching for work reasons let your manager worry about it with HR.
I think my manager is under the impression I'm switching for personal reasons i.e. not doing things I don't want to.
I'm up for a change of line manager due to a sideways move, and the new line manager seems to be a complete micromanager, and even more of this opinion. He would prefer I think that I accept all change requests he makes and make none of my own, and never ask for TOIL.
So obviously I'd rather have this settled.

OP posts:
drspouse · 29/06/2018 11:51

She totally respects my right to 'not be able to work' on my non-working days.
Yeah, the new line manager doesn't do this At All.

OP posts:
BackforGood · 29/06/2018 14:50

Then I think you need to have a recorded / minuted meeting to establish what his policy is. State that in the past, you have been prepared to try to find ways, when you can, of coming in on a non-working day to suit business need, in exchange for you being then able to recoup that time, when it suits you. Ask him if he wants you to still try to work those non-working days, as and when you are able, obviously with the reciprocal arrangement still in place, or would he rather you rigidly stuck to your working days only, which would obviously then mean you couldn't attend things on {insert non working days}, ever, however helpful that would be to the 'business need'.
Some people just need things spelling out to them.
Don't get into the detail of childcare, etc - just keep it about working on non-working days 'when possible'.

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